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How hustle culture took over advertising

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Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#121

Post by epicureanideal »

tome wrote: post #40
esotericn wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should employment be treated as a shroud? If you spend the majority of your time working to abuse your fellow man, I don't respect that, and see no reason why I should. That is not, and should not be accepted as, a "normal life". Advertising companies are a disease.

(I found this usage of "shroud" interesting. It seems to be in the same sense as "corporate veil": https://www.guffo.in/lifting-corporate-veil-circumstances-ca... )

I agree... this is an interesting concept we should explore. As an analogy to the corporate veil, basically anything a person would do in their employment would generally be forgiven as "well, you've gotta make a living", unless it reaches a point where it's sufficiently morally wrong to still hold the person responsible for their actions on the job. For example, if their job were Winston Smith's (George Orwell character) job of editing historical news articles to distort the past, then we might say Winston is still personally responsible.

The difficulty here is holding CEOs responsible for crimes with "piercing the corporate veil" is holding a high level, powerful decision-maker, with options, responsible... rather than a person who might be trying to support 5 kids and some elderly parents, and couldn't just choose to sweep the street instead of working at the Ministry of Information for 6 figures.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#122

Post by esotericn »

neuromantik8086 wrote: post #114
guitarbill wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London is a special kind of hell. Of course, you can have a meaningful and fulfilled life outside of London, but maybe unsurprisingly for a city built on finance (in the modern area?), it attracts people who can only think of money, not cost. Or, for those less driven, maybe moving to London is the equivalent of going to uni, you do it because everybody else is and you don't have a better plan. IDK, I didn't get it a…

It's a bit different in the U.S. in the sense that, whereas in Britain and France most mid-sized cities have decent public transit and municipal services, in the U.S. only a handful large urban centers have these kinds of things. For example, in Clermont-Ferrand, which is roughly to Paris what Albany is in NYC, there is a well-established tram system that can get you to many places you'd want to go to without a car.…

> in Britain [...] most mid-sized cities have decent public transit

Strongly disagree with this. It might be better than the US, but to call it "decent" I think is a bit of a stretch.

Most journeys, in most cities, will be 3x faster by car or more. The exception is usually rush hour commuting into the city centre.

In my hometown for example the buses used to run on a 20 minute timetable in the middle of the day. I could cycle or drive into the city before the bus even arrived.

Inner city London is the exception. In the suburbs public transport is mostly useful for going in to Central London.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#123

Post by BonesJustice »

wnevets wrote: post #117
apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

>Where does this all come from? This is an honest question. Why are people working themselves to death in the US and having this crazy mindset that doing stuff which puts you on the verge of a breakdown is good? When did this start? Americans have been convinced (largely by republicans) that the reason so many americans are struggling financially is because they're lazy and stupid. One of the side effects of this is…

Consequently, any time someone proposes something that will improve the lives of every working American, a disturbing number of us respond along the lines of, "Hey, I work my ass off, and I've had to suffer over ____, so everyone else should have to suffer at least as much." As opposed to, say, "Hey, I've had to deal with ____, and it sucks. Let's fix it so none of us have to deal with this anymore."

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#124

Post by CaptSpify »

Ygg2 wrote: post #43
bachmeier wrote: post #22

> it wasn’t just working hard — it was “maximizing every last bit of energy you have in order to produce.” That reminds of this blog post by Jamie Zawinski[1]: "What is true is that for a VC's business model to work, it's necessary for you to give up your life in order for him to become richer. Follow the fucking money. When a VC tells you what's good for you, check your wallet, then count your fingers. He's telling…

EDIT: Make sure you don't click the link but copy and paste it. It seems the author is intercepting all traffic from HN site to an interesting image.

alternatively: don't send them the referrer

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#125

Post by mslong »

I don't think "hustling" has to be synonymous with overworking. When I think of hustling I think of my dad who used to pay for his life traveling around Europe by buying, driving, and selling cars in different countries he was visiting. Or how he was able to spot a pair of good tires in the junkyard that he could buy for 50 bucks but sell for 500. I always felt hustling meant you could see small opportunities in the world that could make you money, basically out of the knowledge that most people aren't paying attention and turn their "money-making" brain off when they leave the office.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#126

Post by someguydave »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #90
ovi256 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>actions that roughly cancel each other out Welcome to the 'the service industry is a job program for the middle class' view. It's not a rosy one, and the predictions it makes even less so.

I've been entertaining that view for a long time now wrt. advertising, but what other service job has the same characteristics? Namely, that your works serves mostly to undo the results of your peers' work, and vice versa?

There are vast numbers of government (and quasi-government) employees who work to cancel or mitigate the actions of other government employees.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#127

Post by PavlovsCat »

petra wrote: post #107
PavlovsCat wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for autonomy - that's different. Different as in separate from meaning? I disagree.

I feel like we have a misunderstanding. for me: Autonomy = the level of freedom of choosing your own actions , under the constraint that your goal must be met. Meaning = knowing your work has some positive value, which means you can tell yourself(maybe subconsciously) that you are useful, which increases your motivation. Example : a doctor that is forced to use an expert-system to guide him, would feel a lot less aut…

You also need autonomy to choose your own meaning.

> Example : a doctor that is forced to use an expert-system to guide him, would feel a lot less autonomy,even though he may understand that he's more useful to his patients - i.e. ,a lot of meaning.

Then why would they be "forced"? Either it makes their work easier/better or it doesn't, where does the force come in?

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#128

Post by bachmeier »

auto wrote: post #46
bachmeier wrote: post #22

> it wasn’t just working hard — it was “maximizing every last bit of energy you have in order to produce.” That reminds of this blog post by Jamie Zawinski[1]: "What is true is that for a VC's business model to work, it's necessary for you to give up your life in order for him to become richer. Follow the fucking money. When a VC tells you what's good for you, check your wallet, then count your fingers. He's telling…

There's a pretty unfortunate redirect happening with your link. If you don't want to see a testicle, I wouldn't click it.

Unfortunately, no way to edit the link. Guess he doesn't like HN.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#129

Post by Regardsyjc »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #106
eiaoa wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think we're all increasingly aware that our society and infrastructure are crumbling, and no matter how "rich" the country as a whole is, if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. And that awareness translates into people being willing to overwork themselves, so they don't lose their spot in the rat race; and corporations with money to spend on workers are well-positio…

I'm afraid that without some systemic-level changes, donating less time to work and more towards infrastructure maintenance would only be giving free gifts to corporations and small entrepreneurs alike, who will be happy to put the improved infrastructure to use in making more money for themselves. We need a way for improving things where, when a community improves its own space, the gains don't immediately get priva…

I think one of the biggest public infrastructure issues in the United States is the lack of equal education. The education system of the USA is not fair and inherently unequal when schools are funded from the taxes of its local communities.

Other public infrastructure issues could be lack of cheap, affordable internet access, clean water, and health care.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#130

Post by PavlovsCat »

robertfw wrote: post #108
PavlovsCat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's tragic, since the "rat race" is kind of the reason why society and infrastructure are crumbling.

I think the rat race is a symptom, not a cause

What would you say is the cause?
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