How hustle culture took over advertising • Hacker News Board

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#41

Post by ensiferum » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 3:10 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #29

As a professional diesel mechanic, I find most of the points in this article pretty difficult to understand outside the context of, say, Hollywood? or maybe iPhones? Do programmers really have to show this kind of reckless drive? This hasnt been a thing in tradecraft since...forever i dont think...and if it is, its punished pretty severely. An example: if im rebuilding the idler and pitman assembly on a fourteen ton…

"sure its secure and well written?" There's no money in that, so why bother. Unfortunately.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#42

Post by esotericn » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 3:10 PM UTC

alxlaz wrote: post #39

esotericn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I'd add: > People who work in advertising have many career choices at their disposal This is a rhetorical trap. If someone has no options left but to abuse their fellow man in order to survive - that doesn't make it respectable. Inevitable - sure. Something we should tolerate? No, we should call it out, and work to eliminate the circumstances that lead to that sort of thing…

> If someone has no options left but to abuse their fellow man in order to survive - that doesn't make it respectable. Respectable as an activity, no, but understandable -- yes. From the comfort of your own home after a light lunch, it's easy to say that you should refuse to participate in the advertising industry, even if that means starving on the streets. The people who choose advertising over seeing their kids gr…

> From the comfort of your own home after a light lunch

I don't think this sort of ad hominem attack is productive; it instantly puts people on guard and stifles debate.

I may be mistaken, but as far as I'm aware, you know nothing about me or my background.

That out of the way; I think the idea that people work in advertising because otherwise they'd be homeless and starve is a falsehood. It might be true in some cases, but there are literally millions of counterexamples.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#43

Post by Ygg2 » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 3:13 PM UTC

bachmeier wrote: post #22

> it wasn’t just working hard — it was “maximizing every last bit of energy you have in order to produce.” That reminds of this blog post by Jamie Zawinski[1]: "What is true is that for a VC's business model to work, it's necessary for you to give up your life in order for him to become richer. Follow the fucking money. When a VC tells you what's good for you, check your wallet, then count your fingers. He's telling…

EDIT: Make sure you don't click the link but copy and paste it. It seems the author is intercepting all traffic from HN site to an interesting image.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#44

Post by blitmap » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 3:17 PM UTC

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

Anecdotal:

1) Working 40 hours a week does not support my long-term goals (house fund, retirement, vacations, etc). Which is another way of saying my job doesn't pay enough.

2) Companies will gladly have someone perform the work of 3 people and replace them when they burn out. It is rarely in the budget to increase staff with additional work (hah).

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#45

Post by aaron_oxenrider » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 3:19 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #29

As a professional diesel mechanic, I find most of the points in this article pretty difficult to understand outside the context of, say, Hollywood? or maybe iPhones? Do programmers really have to show this kind of reckless drive? This hasnt been a thing in tradecraft since...forever i dont think...and if it is, its punished pretty severely. An example: if im rebuilding the idler and pitman assembly on a fourteen ton…

Office work is much different and programming is certainly different than a hands on job as you describe. It is far too often that the 'move fast and break things' ideology is pushed to meet deadlines or be the first to market, even if the product is broken.

Also, more similar to what you are familiar with, dealership mechanics and jiffy lube style shops are closer to the hustle mentality than your professional role. They are bound by time constraints because normal consumers will only pay so much for your time and there are standard limits to charge for a particular job. If you take longer than the standard time you can charge for, then the loss is yours.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#46

Post by auto » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 3:19 PM UTC

bachmeier wrote: post #22

> it wasn’t just working hard — it was “maximizing every last bit of energy you have in order to produce.” That reminds of this blog post by Jamie Zawinski[1]: "What is true is that for a VC's business model to work, it's necessary for you to give up your life in order for him to become richer. Follow the fucking money. When a VC tells you what's good for you, check your wallet, then count your fingers. He's telling…

There's a pretty unfortunate redirect happening with your link. If you don't want to see a testicle, I wouldn't click it.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#47

Post by rabidrat » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

I think we're all increasingly aware that our society and infrastructure are crumbling, and no matter how "rich" the country as a whole is, if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. And that awareness translates into people being willing to overwork themselves, so they don't lose their spot in the rat race; and corporations with money to spend on workers are well-positioned to take advantage of that, and they do.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#48

Post by jt2190 » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

I suspect your data set is skewed toward those with higher disposable incomes who can travel abroad versus those who are content to live more modestly.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#49

Post by ovi256 » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #17

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a consequence of abundance. If you have a grocery store that has cantaloupes, and that's unusual because most grocery stores don't have cantaloupes most of the time, you just hang a sign in the window that says "Cantaloupes". Maybe you put a print ad in the newspaper. Those who decide they want them will come to your store. When they're all gone, well, your advertising did its job. But if every grocery s…

This is where it turns into tragedy of the commons. If every grocery store has cantaloupes year-round, they need to figure out something else to advertise, or - if they're all selling the same stuff - they should all shut up. Instead, someone will always start the advertising arms race, and suddenly everyone has to waste time and Earth's natural resources on actions that roughly cancel each other out.

>actions that roughly cancel each other out

Welcome to the 'the service industry is a job program for the middle class' view. It's not a rosy one, and the predictions it makes even less so.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#50

Post by jbob2000 » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 3:29 PM UTC

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

The US (and by greater extent, the western world) praises individualism - “do it yourself or it won’t get done right” is a common theme. I think this is a driving force behind overwork.