The guy from Key West is bummed because he can't go back to the shelter he was living at. His plan was to return there, even as a fallback. He was COUNTING on it being there for him.
I think that's part of the problem.
Bussed out: how America moves thousands of homeless people around the country
21–30 of 128 posts
Re: Bussed out: how America moves thousands of homeless people around the country
#22I lived in San Francisco from 2011 - 2016 then moved to Pittsburgh, PA for a job opportunity. This past August, I went back to SF for a team building activity and I was blown away by how many fewer homeless people there were on the streets (excluding Tenderloin). When I lived in SF, there were blocks that I would place money on being a homeless person there, and it seemed like most of them were relocated. Tons of fam…
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Re: Bussed out: how America moves thousands of homeless people around the country
#23this is the Nash Equilibrium type problem that exists with US federalism and extreme poverty. Cities just ship people around hoping to reduce their share of cost, while the homeless just become more physically sick or addicted, and mentally traumatized, so they become more costly to care for in aggregate over a lifetime. Everyone is worse off. It would be so much simpler, cheaper if society just got people back on th…
There would need to be some form of accountability, and some sort of standard way of "getting people back on their feet". Neither exists, so it still doesn't make much sense for any municipality to pay into fixing people's lives in other locales.
Re: Bussed out: how America moves thousands of homeless people around the country
#24IMO this is exactly what we ought to do. A big problem for the homeless is that they become poor in a place with no jobs for them, and then they get stuck. There are lots of places with shortages of the kind of labor they can offer, and making travel easier for them is a great thing to help fix that market failure.
That's OK, but it seems reasonable to follow up on whether the bus ticket was useful or not. Otherwise it's just conveniently moving the problem elsewhere.
Well, keep in mind the agency here. This isn't the city 'moving' anyone, these are people who are choosing to move themselves. I don't see why the city ought even have the responsibility to ensure they have somewhere to stay. Let them go where they want.
Re: Bussed out: how America moves thousands of homeless people around the country
#25I lived in San Francisco from 2011 - 2016 then moved to Pittsburgh, PA for a job opportunity. This past August, I went back to SF for a team building activity and I was blown away by how many fewer homeless people there were on the streets (excluding Tenderloin). When I lived in SF, there were blocks that I would place money on being a homeless person there, and it seemed like most of them were relocated. Tons of fam…
Counterpoint. I've been traveling to SF pretty regularly for a very long time but for whatever reasons hadn't been there for year +. Was at an event at the Moscone in July. Found the homeless situation around the Moscone, Civic Center, etc. to be pretty shockingly bad. I'm not sure how anyone could think it had improved.
Re: Bussed out: how America moves thousands of homeless people around the country
#26Does anyone else find that it especially easy to accidentally click ads on The Guardian whilst browsing on mobile? I don't get it with other sites. If so, I wonder what they have done to make that the case?
I'm generally less annoyed by the Guardian site than many, so don't bother with 'Reader View'
Re: Bussed out: how America moves thousands of homeless people around the country
#27IMO this is exactly what we ought to do. A big problem for the homeless is that they become poor in a place with no jobs for them, and then they get stuck. There are lots of places with shortages of the kind of labor they can offer, and making travel easier for them is a great thing to help fix that market failure.
With unemployment this low there are plenty of entry level jobs people can get into in every city in the country. I live in Seattle and I see people out begging to give people entry level/beginner jobs by the light rail stations and all around the city, but homelessness is still on the rise. Bussing them elsewhere doesn't help when they still don't have a home, a bathroom/shower, clean clothes, food, etc. Bussing the…
> With unemployment this low there are plenty of entry level jobs people can get into in every city in the country. I live in Seattle and I see people out begging to give people entry level/beginner jobs by the light rail stations and all around the city, but homelessness is still on the rise.
If that were actually true, then there wouldn't be a homeless problem. The unemployment rate doesn't count these people. The unemployment rate only counts people who are 'actively looking' for a new job. People who aren't looking at all don't show up in the statistics.
> Bussing them elsewhere doesn't help when they still don't have a home, a bathroom/shower, clean clothes, food, etc.
Let's be careful about the conjugation of that verb. The city is not bussing them anywhere. The city is offering them free bus tickets, if they believe they will be happier elsewhere. If they want to stay, they stay. If they want to leave, they leave.
> Bussing them out is just an idea done by the rich so they don't have to see the homeless any longer.
It's really not. They're not being forced out. They're just being given free tickets if they want them.
Re: Bussed out: how America moves thousands of homeless people around the country
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's OK, but it seems reasonable to follow up on whether the bus ticket was useful or not. Otherwise it's just conveniently moving the problem elsewhere.
Well, keep in mind the agency here. This isn't the city 'moving' anyone, these are people who are choosing to move themselves. I don't see why the city ought even have the responsibility to ensure they have somewhere to stay. Let them go where they want.
I hope you realize the inverse of the problem you posit here: Why should other cities be forced to bear the burden of homeless people being shipped to them?
The end result of your logic would essentially lead to caravans of homeless people because it would be cheaper to give them a bus pass and a pat on the back rather than take care of their own responsibilities. The idea that they have agency in this case is a facade because then the city could deny them care under the guise of 'well we gave them a chance for a better opportunity and they denied it'. It seems to be a uniquely American thing to ignore actually addressing the damn problem in favor of making it someone else's problem.
Re: Bussed out: how America moves thousands of homeless people around the country
#29I lived in San Francisco from 2011 - 2016 then moved to Pittsburgh, PA for a job opportunity. This past August, I went back to SF for a team building activity and I was blown away by how many fewer homeless people there were on the streets (excluding Tenderloin). When I lived in SF, there were blocks that I would place money on being a homeless person there, and it seemed like most of them were relocated. Tons of fam…
Counterpoint. I've been traveling to SF pretty regularly for a very long time but for whatever reasons hadn't been there for year +. Was at an event at the Moscone in July. Found the homeless situation around the Moscone, Civic Center, etc. to be pretty shockingly bad. I'm not sure how anyone could think it had improved.
Oh yeah, 6th street - 8th street on market is still the same. I actually walked back from the Mission one night and one of my co-workers was like "You walked me through a crack den." Most of the people down there were strung out and not violent, but he was definitely not comfortable.
Gilde[1] is right near the area you're talking about and they provide tons of services for the homeless and mentally ill so there is a high concentration around that area.
[1] - https://www.glide.org
Re: Bussed out: how America moves thousands of homeless people around the country
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
With unemployment this low there are plenty of entry level jobs people can get into in every city in the country. I live in Seattle and I see people out begging to give people entry level/beginner jobs by the light rail stations and all around the city, but homelessness is still on the rise. Bussing them elsewhere doesn't help when they still don't have a home, a bathroom/shower, clean clothes, food, etc. Bussing the…
Yes, there are jobs in every city, but in major cities there is difficulty in finding housing and transportation. The cost of living is also high, so it's easy to get into debt. Whereas in smaller cities, it's typically easier to get on your feet because housing is more accessible, transportation is better, and the general CoL is a lot lower.
True, but this combined with brain drain creates a lot of perverse incentives and drives a further wealth divide.
For example, many low tax base areas accumulate a population with more problems that have higher tax rates, insurance rates, etc (and a more strained social net) than a rich city.
It is important to make sure rich areas are at least paying some of the costs they create in selectively pushing people out or creating bottlenecks to set a minimum CoL on who comes in.