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Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

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Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#71

Post by snacktaster »

dpkonofa wrote: post #63
notable_user wrote: post #4

This only protects when the lid is closed, but many people leave the lid open on their desk. I would love to see a light come on if the camera or microphone is receiving power, and then only turn on power to these devices when a program requests it.

The camera already functions this way. The light is connected to the actual power of the camera and cannot be disabled unless the camera is also disabled. The microphone, to my knowledge, doesn't function like this but I don't think it makes sense for it to function like this as the microphone doesn't really need power outside of what's provided to the amps and DACs inside the machine. It would be too easy to work ar…

> The light is connected to the actual power of the camera and cannot be disabled unless the camera is also disabled.

This was proven false when malware was discovered that accessed the camera on Mac laptops without activating the LED light. It's mentioned in the article.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#72

Post by alphabettsy »

modzu wrote: post #59
pulse7 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical switch could be made INSIDE the laptop and would be automatically pressed by the lid itself - when the lid is closed. No sensors needed. No chip needed. When lid is closed - mic is disconnected. When opened - mic is connected... User does not need to do anything else then closing the lid...

too easy to fix if it breaks

A switch is more likely to break than a sensor and there’s already one for closed lid.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#73

Post by wongarsu »

askvictor wrote: post #64

I recently learned that LEDs can be used as light sensors if connected to an ADC. I wonder what other mechanisms there might be to capture sound that a determined adversary (i.e. government organisation) might use. While speakers can certainly be used as microphones, I doubt they'd be connected to an ADC so probably won't be useful, but what about the multitude of other sensors?

> While speakers can certainly be used as microphones, I doubt they'd be connected to an ADC so probably won't be useful

In most modern PCs with two audio jacks software will ask you what kind of device you just connected and reconfigure the sound chip to treat it as input or output. I wouldn't be surprised if clever software was able to convince Apple hardware to treat the built in speaker as a microphone.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#75

Post by ridgeguy »

pulse7 wrote: post #53
GuB-42 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is already a lid closed sensor. Adding another mechanical switch is more expensive, adds another point of failure, takes space, may interfere with the aesthetics, etc... The T2 chip probably also acts as a controller for a lot of the builtin sensors, including the microphone and lid closed switch. As a result, adding a feature to turn off the microphone when the lid is closed becomes trivial. Basically just add…

Physical switch could be made INSIDE the laptop and would be automatically pressed by the lid itself - when the lid is closed. No sensors needed. No chip needed. When lid is closed - mic is disconnected. When opened - mic is connected... User does not need to do anything else then closing the lid...

Physical switch could be done with a very small magnet behind the lid surface and an opposed micro-reed switch (or other magnetically actuated on/off device) buried behind the body surface. No surface penetrations, no exposed moving parts (reed relays are hermetically sealed).

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#76

Post by alphabettsy »

snacktaster wrote: post #71
dpkonofa wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The camera already functions this way. The light is connected to the actual power of the camera and cannot be disabled unless the camera is also disabled. The microphone, to my knowledge, doesn't function like this but I don't think it makes sense for it to function like this as the microphone doesn't really need power outside of what's provided to the amps and DACs inside the machine. It would be too easy to work ar…

> The light is connected to the actual power of the camera and cannot be disabled unless the camera is also disabled. This was proven false when malware was discovered that accessed the camera on Mac laptops without activating the LED light. It's mentioned in the article.

The reasearch to prove that vulnerability was done on Macs made up until 2008 if I’m not mistaken. It’s not clear if that attack is still possible.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#77

Post by Digital-Citizen »

megaremote wrote: post #32
jimhefferon wrote: post #25

Or they could do, you know, a simple $0.10 on-off slide switch.

The number of people want this is ridiculously small, plus quite ugly.

Ugliness is subjective. Where do you get the data to back up the claim that "the number of people [who] want this is ridiculously small"?

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#78

Post by Digital-Citizen »

samstave wrote: post #74

This begs the question: how prevalent was mic spying prior? Why knew it was or could or might be happening, but at what scale?

We don't commonly have figures on that, however the combination of proprietary (non-free, user subjugating) OS and application software plus built-in camera/mic hardware doesn't bode well for one's privacy.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#79

Post by starbeast »

Yetanfou wrote: post #68

I'm waiting for a paper to come out discussing the use of the accelerometer or gyroscope to record audio.

Using MEMS Accelerometers as Acoustic Pickups in Musical Instruments - https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/mems-acce...

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#80

Post by jononor »

Yetanfou wrote: post #68

I'm waiting for a paper to come out discussing the use of the accelerometer or gyroscope to record audio.

Several of these already. Here is one from 2014, https://crypto.stanford.edu/gyrophone/

Seem to remember an impressive one from this year using modern deep learning, but could not find it now.

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