Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#61

Post by dpkonofa » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 11:24 PM UTC

lstodd wrote: post #46

kondro wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the magnet-actuated switch for each mic.

Those are rated for over hundreds of millions of switching cycles. They would be the last thing that breaks in a laptop. But if you're so against moving parts, a hall sensor and a transistor would achieve the same result.

Or, you know, they could use a chip that they're already putting into the device (like the T2) and not have to use additional components. Same end result without the extra parts.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#62

Post by dpkonofa » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 11:25 PM UTC

function_seven wrote: post #49

christophilus wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you may want to configure it. I close my laptop when it’s attached to an external monitor. The mic should stay on in that instance.

That would defeat the purpose wouldn’t it? Malware would also configure it.

Malware doesn't have access to the T2. Presumably, the T2 is configurable separately from the rest of the hardware or anything else the system would have access to.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#63

Post by dpkonofa » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 11:28 PM UTC

notable_user wrote: post #4

This only protects when the lid is closed, but many people leave the lid open on their desk. I would love to see a light come on if the camera or microphone is receiving power, and then only turn on power to these devices when a program requests it.

The camera already functions this way. The light is connected to the actual power of the camera and cannot be disabled unless the camera is also disabled. The microphone, to my knowledge, doesn't function like this but I don't think it makes sense for it to function like this as the microphone doesn't really need power outside of what's provided to the amps and DACs inside the machine. It would be too easy to work around. Any membrane capable of vibration would be able to be used as a microphone, including the laptop's speakers, so it'd be more work for little gain.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#64

Post by askvictor » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 11:29 PM UTC

I recently learned that LEDs can be used as light sensors if connected to an ADC. I wonder what other mechanisms there might be to capture sound that a determined adversary (i.e. government organisation) might use. While speakers can certainly be used as microphones, I doubt they'd be connected to an ADC so probably won't be useful, but what about the multitude of other sensors?

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#65

Post by ctdonath » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 11:30 PM UTC

NicoJuicy wrote: post #51

I'm really wondering if there even was 1 customer request for this.

My company (major telecom) literally gives away camera covers. Surely they'd do same for mics if there was a convenient cheap way. There's plenty of rumors about mics & cameras being commandeered by hackers & secret agencies.

Apple gets ahead by actually securing mic access. Lots of people want it.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#66

Post by sjwright » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 11:32 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #22

davnicwil wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm suggesting the lid could control the switch, physically, as in when you close it the mic's circuit is broken.

> the lid could control the switch Doing it on a chip sounds more reliable than adding a moving part.

And sounds more scalable too, if they wanted to start applying the same principle to other components like accelerometers, light sensors etc.

The point (it seems) of the T2 chip is that it's isolated from the main system and has far fewer opportunities for exploitation, while leveraging efforts already expended for the iPhone. In my mind the eventual goal of the T1 / T2 etc chip line will be to do everything for a Mac that an iPhone does—storage, webcam control and encoding, audio in/out, fingerprint reader, sensors, battery monitoring, power management etc—and then expose it all to the main system en masse.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#67

Post by tobyhinloopen » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 11:34 PM UTC

What about a hardware switch? You know, a mechanical switch, like the one already used to detect whether the lid is closed? Besides, I also want the mic disabled when my laptop is open...

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#68

Post by Yetanfou » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 11:35 PM UTC

I'm waiting for a paper to come out discussing the use of the accelerometer or gyroscope to record audio.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#69

Post by MBCook » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 11:37 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #37

MBCook wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that would mean you can’t use the built-in microphone when actively using the computer in clamshell mode.

Is this not true with the current implementation, as well?

I am assuming that if the T2 chip is unlocked (the laptop is in use) then the microphone is still available.

If not, then you’re right it would be exactly the same.

Re: Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping on your microphone

#70

Post by scarface74 » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 11:39 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #13

Congratulations Apple for implementing the spst switch in 7nm with 23 million transistors.

The T2 is used for:

- image signal processing

- an audio controller

- a mass storage controller

- a dedicated AES engine for encryption.

- secure enclave for touch id