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You’re Not Managing a Team of Software Engineers, You’re Managing Writers

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Re: You’re Not Managing a Team of Software Engineers, You’re Managing Writers

#11

Post by ilovecaching »

Managers shouldn't be writing code or architecting at all. A manager's job is to manage people or a product. If it's people, she should be completely focused on unblocking the engineers and keeping them out of meetings. If it's the product, she should be completely focused on gathering the requirements and constraints and communicating with the customer and getting estimates from the engineers.

The architecture and implementation is a hidden detail for a manager. Either the team lead, architect, or team as a whole should design and move on the code.

Re: You’re Not Managing a Team of Software Engineers, You’re Managing Writers

#12

Post by slededit »

thinkingkong wrote: post #3

No youre managing a team of software engineers, one skill they have is writing. The product isnt the text. The product is the entire system designed to keep the text alive, functional, reasonably error free all in a relatively unpredictable environment. We definitely need to keep considering how other professions manage the unpredictable nature of their work so we can learn. Im just not sure this narrative suits that…

The uncomfortable fact is other professions treat their employees like cogs (hiring booms then mass layoffs), or their customers like crap (ever wait an hour for your set time appointment at the doctor?). The determining factor is really the price of the professional.

Software development is in a real interesting situation as its transitioning from a low status job to a high status one. As this progresses you'll see more and more "the customer is always wrong" style blog posts. They are already pretty common already.

Re: You’re Not Managing a Team of Software Engineers, You’re Managing Writers

#13

Post by harlanji »

slededit wrote: post #12
thinkingkong wrote: post #3

No youre managing a team of software engineers, one skill they have is writing. The product isnt the text. The product is the entire system designed to keep the text alive, functional, reasonably error free all in a relatively unpredictable environment. We definitely need to keep considering how other professions manage the unpredictable nature of their work so we can learn. Im just not sure this narrative suits that…

The uncomfortable fact is other professions treat their employees like cogs (hiring booms then mass layoffs), or their customers like crap (ever wait an hour for your set time appointment at the doctor?). The determining factor is really the price of the professional. Software development is in a real interesting situation as its transitioning from a low status job to a high status one. As this progresses you'll see…

What’s your basis for determing status?

In my experience it massively elevated my status 15 years ago thru now, where it seems to have no effect and perhaps anchor me away from higher level jobs given the value of the output and scarcity of 10x engineers.

I’m happy enough as a simple IC if they pay and treat me well, but that’s not been the case in 5+ years which has me in retirement from the field.

Re: You’re Not Managing a Team of Software Engineers, You’re Managing Writers

#14

Post by marktangotango »

harlanji wrote: post #13
slededit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uncomfortable fact is other professions treat their employees like cogs (hiring booms then mass layoffs), or their customers like crap (ever wait an hour for your set time appointment at the doctor?). The determining factor is really the price of the professional. Software development is in a real interesting situation as its transitioning from a low status job to a high status one. As this progresses you'll see…

What’s your basis for determing status? In my experience it massively elevated my status 15 years ago thru now, where it seems to have no effect and perhaps anchor me away from higher level jobs given the value of the output and scarcity of 10x engineers. I’m happy enough as a simple IC if they pay and treat me well, but that’s not been the case in 5+ years which has me in retirement from the field.

You’re saying there’s less status now than 15 years ago and you’re retired now? Can you talk about your experience, very interesting!

Re: You’re Not Managing a Team of Software Engineers, You’re Managing Writers

#15

Post by protomyth »

21 wrote: post #5
protomyth wrote: post #2

I do wonder how a TV show runner of some experience would handle a software production. There are a lot of moving parts that are not unlike what they deal with.

There is no technical debt in TV production. That alone changes many things. You don't need to care how you arrived at the result or how "maintainable" it is.

I'm not sure that quite right. You do need to make sure it is maintainable because (at least in the US), they needed multiple seasons to reach a mark that would allow syndication.

Re: You’re Not Managing a Team of Software Engineers, You’re Managing Writers

#16

Post by slededit »

harlanji wrote: post #13
slededit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uncomfortable fact is other professions treat their employees like cogs (hiring booms then mass layoffs), or their customers like crap (ever wait an hour for your set time appointment at the doctor?). The determining factor is really the price of the professional. Software development is in a real interesting situation as its transitioning from a low status job to a high status one. As this progresses you'll see…

What’s your basis for determing status? In my experience it massively elevated my status 15 years ago thru now, where it seems to have no effect and perhaps anchor me away from higher level jobs given the value of the output and scarcity of 10x engineers. I’m happy enough as a simple IC if they pay and treat me well, but that’s not been the case in 5+ years which has me in retirement from the field.

Status normally follows money (with enough gestation time). For the simple reason to get money you need to convince someone who already has it to give it to you.

The inverse is also true, while a Noble title will get you a good spot at a traditional restaurant in London - for the most part nobody cares now that they don't employ half the village.

Re: You’re Not Managing a Team of Software Engineers, You’re Managing Writers

#17

Post by contingencies »

Niven's First Law of Writing: Writers who write for other writers should write letters. - Larry Niven, science fiction author (1989)

The writer is that person who, embarking upon her task, does not know what to do. - Donald Barthelme

Summary of advice from writers: Advice from writers is useful, and not only about naming. Writers have been at it for centuries; programming is merely decades old. Also, their advice is better written. And funnier. - Peter Hilton

... via http://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup

Re: You’re Not Managing a Team of Software Engineers, You’re Managing Writers

#18

Post by Nasrudith »

slededit wrote: post #12
thinkingkong wrote: post #3

No youre managing a team of software engineers, one skill they have is writing. The product isnt the text. The product is the entire system designed to keep the text alive, functional, reasonably error free all in a relatively unpredictable environment. We definitely need to keep considering how other professions manage the unpredictable nature of their work so we can learn. Im just not sure this narrative suits that…

The uncomfortable fact is other professions treat their employees like cogs (hiring booms then mass layoffs), or their customers like crap (ever wait an hour for your set time appointment at the doctor?). The determining factor is really the price of the professional. Software development is in a real interesting situation as its transitioning from a low status job to a high status one. As this progresses you'll see…

Softward development is a very inconsistent status and status depends upon what is aimed for greatly. Outsourcing to cheap labor was considered a cost cutting panacea until it backfired horribly.

Apparently Japan considers programmers low prestige still for one.

Re: You’re Not Managing a Team of Software Engineers, You’re Managing Writers

#19

Post by callmeal »

21 wrote: post #5
protomyth wrote: post #2

I do wonder how a TV show runner of some experience would handle a software production. There are a lot of moving parts that are not unlike what they deal with.

There is no technical debt in TV production. That alone changes many things. You don't need to care how you arrived at the result or how "maintainable" it is.

There is. It's just called continuity errors, or retroactive continuity. Not something that you can easily fix given the type of industry.

Re: You’re Not Managing a Team of Software Engineers, You’re Managing Writers

#20

Post by lbriner »

protomyth wrote: post #15
21 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no technical debt in TV production. That alone changes many things. You don't need to care how you arrived at the result or how "maintainable" it is.

I'm not sure that quite right. You do need to make sure it is maintainable because (at least in the US), they needed multiple seasons to reach a mark that would allow syndication.

I think 21 is talking about the technical side of production e.g. hacking some weird sound effect - doesn't necessarily matter if it was hard, once it's recorded and produced, it's done. If you had to have someone holding up a part of the set, as long as it worked, it doesn't need to be maintained.

What you are talking about is maintenance of the storyline, which in some ways is probably more consistent with what us Devs talk about with technical debt. That said, there are plenty of plot holes in many TV shows and I still watch them!

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