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LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

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Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#111

Post by DuskStar »

rifung wrote: post #15
swampthinker wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On mobile so I'll having trouble finding a source, but studies have unfortunately found that countries with legalized prostitution generally have higher trafficking rates.

Here you go: https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-... "Countries with legalized prostitution are associated with higher human trafficking inflows than countries where prostitution is prohibited. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution, i.e. expansion of the market, outweighs the substitution effect, where legal sex workers are favored over illegal workers. On average, countries with legaliz…

Wasn't one of the suggested causes of this that legalizing prostitution made it possible for the trafficked women in question to report their trafficking without being arrested? (And to still have a living afterwards)

When your metric is "crimes discovered" or "crimes reported", you have to make sure improvements come from reduction in crime, not detection rates...

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#112

Post by JDiculous »

aikah wrote: post #57
JDiculous wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody has a choice in their type of work, nobody is forced to be a prostitute. Yes most prostitutes probably don't enjoy it, but they put up with it because the money is generally many multiples more than whatever they'd make at an office job and the hours are more flexible. If someone feels like they don't have any other job opportunities, then making prostitution illegal certainly won't fix that problem (nor do…

i'm not sure on what planet you are living or you think you live. > Everybody has a choice in their type of work, nobody is forced to be a prostitute. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit... People are forced into sex work all the time, everywhere on the planet including in rich western countries, by various means,debt, violence,death…

Obviously forced child prostitution and trafficking happens, nobody is denying that or defending such a repulsive practice, just like nobody denies or defends slavery or forced labor. If you actually read the comment I was responding to you'd see that we were talking about sex work in general.

Why the hell can we not have a real conversation about sex work among consenting adults without somebody conflating it with slavery and child prostitution?

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#113

Post by zaroth »

learc83 wrote: post #97
zaroth wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has become a trope. Women frequently turn to prostitution because it pays extremely well, too. Unemployment is 3.7%. Anyone remotely employable can get a job today, but especially women. Women made up ~47% of the workforce in 2017 and are on track to hold more jobs than men in a few years, even with a lower participation rate. Female unemployment rate trended significantly lower than male unemployment rate durin…

>And women hold special legal status to take leave to have children (there is no Federal paternity leave in the US, however some states offer it). Are you talking about the FMLA? It covers fathers and mothers. It's also unpaid and only lasts 12 weeks.

Wow, Wikipedia needs help on this one.

Ctrl-F 'paternity' and look at the table:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_and_Medical_Leave_Act_o...

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#114

Post by tomc1985 »

cespul wrote: post #35
tomc1985 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for every one of those reports there is another of sex workers who find it empowering, profitable, and maybe even fun

Surely that ratio is much higher than 1:1. The amount of camgirls having "fun" and independently successful escorts has to be relatively small compared to the amount of average sex workers, many of whom didn't exactly choose that life and don't find it to be very "empowering".

Heaven forbid that someone actually enjoy the work they do with their bodies... or have we forgotten that all these activities are rooted in the giving and receiving of pleasure?

There are advocacy groups out there campaigning for sex workers' rights, staffed by sex workers and former sex workers, and I would think that if the profession were really so bad for independent providers then groups like this either wouldn't exist or would have a very different character.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#115

Post by woodpanel »

DuskStar wrote: post #110
woodpanel wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is manyfold. While prostitution shouldn't be a crime in the first place IMHO, having illegal street prostitution at the front of your door is something you definitely don't want and is worth fighting against. The same would go for drugs or even stolen bread if there was a black market for it. It has less to do with the morality of it being legal/illegal and more with the people gathering in front…

So in other words, legalizing and requiring that sex work occur in licensed brothels within designated areas (and thus not on your doorstep) would solve that problem?

Yes, to an extent.

Legalizing it reduces the side effects of illegal street prostitution, like turf wars, used condoms, drug dealers targeting prostitutes, rapists targeting prostitutes. Pimps get more civilized (or are out of the game altogether).

Those things mentioned don't go away completely and what definitely stays: the stigma of buying sex. Thus the customers will still treat the area like something to rush through.

But that is still better, than having illegal street prostitution. If you have open conduct of illegal things in an area, other illegal things pop up too.

For the record: Where I grew up, we had "mom and pop" brothels in between residential areas and large scale ones in commercial/industrial zones. No problems. The only thing weird about it were some of the customers from time to time.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#116

Post by DoreenMichele »

coldtea wrote: post #103
DoreenMichele wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This presumes that only women can be prostitutes and only men can be clients, among other things.

Doesn't have to "presume". Historically and globally that has overwhelmingly been the case.

Isn't the point of feminism to change things so that historical trends concerning gendered outcomes change? If you assume that the past trends are set in stone and cannot change, then policy proposals sound either pointless or like they will reinforce the status quo rather than rewrite things.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#117

Post by DoreenMichele »

sokoloff wrote: post #96
DoreenMichele wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on the street with my two adult sons. They each got such an offer once from a much older man. I had a lot more such offers. There may be the occasional statistical outlier. But, on average, you are going to see homeless women offered money for sex a great deal more often than homeless men. If you want to rebut that, please cite sources, not anecdata. I've had a class on homelessness and public policy. I spent n…

Though I don't doubt your specific claim, demanding others cite sources to rebut your own anecdata in a thread which includes complaints about double standards is...interesting.

Their anecdata is "I know one guy..." My statement is that I have had a college class on the subject, I have years of personal firsthand experience as part of a mixed gender family and I still write about the topic, which means I still talk to homeless people and read up on the topic on a regular basis.

Your casual dismissal of my knowledge as mere anecdata on par with theirs isn't in the least bit "interesting".

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#118

Post by dsfyu404ed »

tomjen3 wrote: post #108
Claudus wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me, that legalizing prostitution would be at the top of the issues list for feminism. Most of the arguments made in support of legal abortion could also be made for legal prostitution. Furthermore, there is a fair amount of research indicating that legal prostitution reduces occurances of rape. Although I suppose it would increase “liquidity” in the market, and reduce the value of sex to a certain degree.

There is a "real-politic" feminism/feministic view where the goal is to increase the value of women in the sexual market. The value of goods sold will always be at a higher value when you have a monopoly. Legal prostitution would get men sex for certain at a known cost, whereas taking somebody out on a date is not certain to lead to sex. Keeping prostitution illegal means the monopoly is strengthened. BTW, here in De…

> having sex for money is legal, but only the prostitute can make money of of it (directly, anyway)

So how do brothels/"massage parlors" make money? Charge prostitutes? Sell overpriced condoms?

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#120

Post by code_duck »

craftyguy wrote: post #23
closeparen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is required to respect privacy, not to be stupid. An area's status as a crime hotspot can reasonably cast suspicion on those visiting it late at night.

> The government is required to respect privacy, not to be stupid There's absolutely no requirement to 'respect privacy.'

It depends how you define privacy.
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