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LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

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Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#101

Post by sobrevivendo »

sathackr wrote: post #7

So the signs are there so that the police have probable cause to stop someone that they otherwise wouldn't have probable cause to stop. Does anyone else see a problem with making otherwise perfectly legal and safe behavior(turning on to a side street) illegal just to legalize an otherwise unconstitutional traffic stop? Seems like another slippery slope we ought not to be sliding down.

Not to mention that this law will surely induce racial and social biases.

I am sure no single old lady will ever be fined or otherwise harrassed by incurring in this violation. This clearly means that law enforcement is using this rule to expand its mandate.

This is just bad legislation.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#102

Post by conanbatt »

krishicks wrote: post #84
sathackr wrote: post #7

So the signs are there so that the police have probable cause to stop someone that they otherwise wouldn't have probable cause to stop. Does anyone else see a problem with making otherwise perfectly legal and safe behavior(turning on to a side street) illegal just to legalize an otherwise unconstitutional traffic stop? Seems like another slippery slope we ought not to be sliding down.

Think of it another way: the locals overwhelmingly agreed to change the rules because they probably understood that while they could adapt to the rule, outsiders probably would not be as well-informed. Someone making a right turn after hours paints themselves as a potential outsider who doesn’t know the rules and, given the location’s history, is probably there to solicit sex. I like that the community was empowered…

The ability of a group of people to indulge into abusive ideas with the power of the state seems quite appalling to me.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#103

Post by coldtea »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #74
mattmanser wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's far more complicated than that, there's a big division in feminists over whether women should have the choice, or whether it's inherently exploitative by men.

This presumes that only women can be prostitutes and only men can be clients, among other things.

Doesn't have to "presume". Historically and globally that has overwhelmingly been the case.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#104

Post by taejo »

rv-de wrote: post #70

I'm from Germany. Maybe that is why I don't get it. Does "banning right turns at night" mean that it is banned to take a right turn at night? As in not being allowed to enter a crossing street in the right direction? ELI5, please. Thank you.

Yes, it means exactly that.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#105

Post by rv-de »

taejo wrote: post #104
rv-de wrote: post #70

I'm from Germany. Maybe that is why I don't get it. Does "banning right turns at night" mean that it is banned to take a right turn at night? As in not being allowed to enter a crossing street in the right direction? ELI5, please. Thank you.

Yes, it means exactly that.

Okay, thanks, I thought I might be crazy.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#106

Post by amargherio »

rv-de wrote: post #70

I'm from Germany. Maybe that is why I don't get it. Does "banning right turns at night" mean that it is banned to take a right turn at night? As in not being allowed to enter a crossing street in the right direction? ELI5, please. Thank you.

That's correct. The intent of the law is to forbid making right turns from certain streets within a certain time frame. In this case, making a right turn off of this street in question from midnight to 7 AM is illegal and considered a traffic violation.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#107

Post by Gravityloss »

coldtea wrote: post #61

First, they should ask: Is there a prostitution problem? And what is the prostitution problem? Is it the problem that prostitution is sinful? Then they could perhaps finally come to the 21st century, and the problem is solved by itself. Is the problem that prostitution is illegal? That's a self imposed problem, they can just change the law (like other countries and some states/counties have). Is the problem that soci…

I would assume the supply part of prostitution also correlates with cost of education, unemployment and low social security and drug problems. Ie if people have more choice in how they support themselves or their family, fewer people end up choosing to work as prostitutes?

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#108

Post by tomjen3 »

Claudus wrote: post #68
coldtea wrote: post #61

First, they should ask: Is there a prostitution problem? And what is the prostitution problem? Is it the problem that prostitution is sinful? Then they could perhaps finally come to the 21st century, and the problem is solved by itself. Is the problem that prostitution is illegal? That's a self imposed problem, they can just change the law (like other countries and some states/counties have). Is the problem that soci…

It seems to me, that legalizing prostitution would be at the top of the issues list for feminism. Most of the arguments made in support of legal abortion could also be made for legal prostitution. Furthermore, there is a fair amount of research indicating that legal prostitution reduces occurances of rape. Although I suppose it would increase “liquidity” in the market, and reduce the value of sex to a certain degree.

There is a "real-politic" feminism/feministic view where the goal is to increase the value of women in the sexual market.

The value of goods sold will always be at a higher value when you have a monopoly. Legal prostitution would get men sex for certain at a known cost, whereas taking somebody out on a date is not certain to lead to sex. Keeping prostitution illegal means the monopoly is strengthened.

BTW, here in Denmark, having sex for money is legal, but only the prostitute can make money of of it (directly, anyway), which means that prostitutes can outsource their protection to the police. In Sweden it is legal sell sex, but not to buy it, which means they technically could call the police anyway, but it will destroy their business -- and that the customers they do get are less likely to obey they law and so are more likely to be violent.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#109

Post by tomjen3 »

zunzun wrote: post #3
mindcrime wrote: post #2

There is no "prostitution problem", other than meddling moralizers who want to tell people what they can do with their own bodies. Legalize prostitution, get the government out of the business of trying to control people's bodies, and the "problem" goes away.

On the addiction relief program "Intervention" they showed a woman who said that she had to inject heroin immediately before this type of work to make it tolerable, and she also said that she found most disgusting to her was that she had to pretend to enjoy what the clients did to her.

That is an extreme case, and I hope that she gets another line of work more suited to her.

But lets not forget that most people aren't happy being cleaners, servers, etc and do it entirely for the money. Nothing wrong with that, but in this world only a very small group is happy enough to love their job (and most people love only a part of it).

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#110

Post by DuskStar »

woodpanel wrote: post #87
coldtea wrote: post #61

First, they should ask: Is there a prostitution problem? And what is the prostitution problem? Is it the problem that prostitution is sinful? Then they could perhaps finally come to the 21st century, and the problem is solved by itself. Is the problem that prostitution is illegal? That's a self imposed problem, they can just change the law (like other countries and some states/counties have). Is the problem that soci…

I think the problem is manyfold. While prostitution shouldn't be a crime in the first place IMHO, having illegal street prostitution at the front of your door is something you definitely don't want and is worth fighting against. The same would go for drugs or even stolen bread if there was a black market for it. It has less to do with the morality of it being legal/illegal and more with the people gathering in front…

So in other words, legalizing and requiring that sex work occur in licensed brothels within designated areas (and thus not on your doorstep) would solve that problem?
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