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Academia is a cult?

washingtonpost.com

61–70 of 135 posts

Re: Academia is a cult?

#61

Seems like this should be titled "Humanities Academia is a cult". Which is a conclusion with which I don't necessarily disagree. Frankly, the job numbers are out there. If you choose to get a PhD in history even after seeing them, you're probably delusional in some form. I'm not so certain about STEM however. While cults can pop up anywhere there is a leader with a non trivial power dynamic, I'd say that a fair porti…

[deleted]

Re: Academia is a cult?

#62
post #24

>It should come as no surprise that the professor who made that demand is a white male alumnus of the Ivy League, and the student an immigrant from a working-class background. I'm getting really tired of these kinds of racial and ethnic generalizations. If you substitute "asian" or "jew" in and you find it's racist, it's still racist if it says "white."

> I'm getting really tired of these kinds of racial and ethnic generalizations. If you substitute "asian" or "jew" in and you find it's racist, it's still racist if it says "white." No. If you attended a civil rights march in 1962 and remarked at how white the counter-protesters were (and how the hoses never seem to get aimed at them), you would be making an accurate observation about race and power dynamics, not sme…

It’s not 1962 anymore. A non-liberal, straight white male is persona non-grata in many universities.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#63

As a counter to this article I found my time as a grad student exceedingly productive and gave me great faith in the scientific institution. I definitely believe academics are underpaid; when most of the people in my department could have easy made 500k doing ML in the valley, they were making less than 100k as post docs or 30k as grad students. Otherwise my advisors were always incredibly proud of their students, pa…

They aren’t underpaid. Tenured professors have the ultimate job security. They also get paid sabbaticals which is fairly rare in the real world. Adjunct professors on the other hand — those are definitely underpaid, but they’re often doing that work as a side job or they’re trying to fight their way to tenure.

A job from which you can’t be fired? That’s worth something. Stellar benefits? That’s worth something as well.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#64
post #5
post #2

Are PhD degrees required to do machine learning research? Or can someone be completely self-taught and contribute to the field as much as those with PhDs?

Conferences / other publication venues don't require you have a PhD to submit to them. However, figuring out what a good novel research problem is and solving it rigorously is much much easier in an academic environment --- both because you are financially supported to work on said problems and because you have a community of people to tutor you and give you feedback.

I think the financial part is important. Funding in academia is interesting to say the least. Especially when it comes to grant funding, which can often have interesting requirements that are impossible to have privately or as an individual.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#65

Something that David Graeber said that opened my eyes. Until the 1970s or so, Universities were actually a guild for academics geared towards the production of knowledge. They had self rules, titles, apprenticeship systems, and to some degree the backing and protection of the state. Plus like a true medieval guild, they were run by the masters of the guild itself. Sure, they did not call themselves guilds, but in for…

"... to replace the dying batch, ..."

I would speculate that longer lifespans may well have a lot to do with at least some of the shifts.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#66

I don't agree with this. A cult requires two things: your money and your loyalty. Neither gets your that far in academia. Look at all the people trying to get into Harvard. Many applicants would willingly pay way more than the tuition if to be guaranteed a slot (if Harvard slots were put to auction, I imagine bids would be very high), but so so few are accepted despite being able to pay. Scientology will accept anyon…

You are mistaking, admission to Harvard with a "career in academia". Being admitted to a school has some correlation to your achievements (legacy students and affirmative action aside). Being one of the small percentage of graduate students that gets a paying job in the field has far more to do with your loyalty and your willingness to subjugate yourself to the will of your superiors - as the author of this piece (an…

your loyalty and your willingness to subjugate yourself to the will of your superiors

no it does not because even among the loyal not all are guaranteed tenure, whereas cults induct anyone who pays and is loyal, with no cap.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#67
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re gonna get downvoted because this is HN but really this article is clickbait designed to exploit a growing epistemological crisis in the west. The author is just describing a group with a history and traditions. While cults are also groups with tradition and sometimes history it’s well disingenuous to say THAT is their defining feature. EDIT: I’d just like to be clear that Academia has definitely got serious is…

> You’re gonna get downvoted because this is HN I think he's getting downvoted because the Washington Post is, almost unquestionably, not a cult. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, and he provided none.

> I think he's getting downvoted because the Washington Post is, almost unquestionably, not a cult.

And with that simple statement of fact, "pacifist" has been "intellectually pantsed."

LOL.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#68

Seems like this should be titled "Humanities Academia is a cult". Which is a conclusion with which I don't necessarily disagree. Frankly, the job numbers are out there. If you choose to get a PhD in history even after seeing them, you're probably delusional in some form. I'm not so certain about STEM however. While cults can pop up anywhere there is a leader with a non trivial power dynamic, I'd say that a fair porti…

I have a PhD in theoretical physics. The only reason I found transitioning to software easy was because I had been writing software my entire life anyway. Am I better or even as good as the engineers who have 6 years experience on me? I don't think I am. Time will tell if I outpace them.

I no longer hold delusions and overly romantic notions of what academic science is. If I have one advantage, it is that I have no doubts as to my career path. I am a very indecisive person, and leaving academia is one thing in my life I am sure was a good choice.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#69
post #24

>It should come as no surprise that the professor who made that demand is a white male alumnus of the Ivy League, and the student an immigrant from a working-class background. I'm getting really tired of these kinds of racial and ethnic generalizations. If you substitute "asian" or "jew" in and you find it's racist, it's still racist if it says "white."

Indeed, the irony here is... kind of amazing. While the author is spot on about the cultish practices thriving in certain corridors of the ivory tower, he's apparently blind to his own susceptibility to some of the more poisonous strains of dogma issued from the very same sources.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#70
post #40

Seems like this should be titled "Humanities Academia is a cult". Which is a conclusion with which I don't necessarily disagree. Frankly, the job numbers are out there. If you choose to get a PhD in history even after seeing them, you're probably delusional in some form. I'm not so certain about STEM however. While cults can pop up anywhere there is a leader with a non trivial power dynamic, I'd say that a fair porti…

Music academia is terrible and riddled with politics and infighting from my experience also. The number of actual livable jobs for classical musicians are very low. It makes me pissed off how public schools will still spend hundred of thousands of dollars and push kids into classical music when it is such a dead end, and competition is so high. It is a ponzi scheme where the students pay the teachers, then the studen…

Music schools aren't just about performance - as long as you are clever about what your research field is, any degree is applicable to any kind of career. Want to go into politics? Write a dissertation on the political influences of the Habsburg monarchy on European music, or perhaps unearth new data on the fly-over republican states through an ethnomusicological lens. Want to get into technology? There is probably no more fun way than to do a PhD in sonic arts, creating complex technical-marvel music machines and writing music software that lands you a job with one of the many music software companies (or start your own). Maybe you want a teaching career? Sure - it's hard work to get tenure but what could be more rewarding than talking and thinking about music all day. Sports or therapy? Music therapy in combination with Feldenkrais or Alexander techniques gets you into a more interesting, unique field than just standard therapy. I could think of a lot more examples how a music school could really supplement the career of anyone - it's the fault of the music school that focuses on looking backwards and only celebrating chamber/choir music. Many schools are realising that's not helpful anymore and while believe me, I love a great rendering of an 18th century opera, you can get a lot more out of music school than that.
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