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Firebug Metamorphosis

blog.getfirebug.com

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Re: Firebug Metamorphosis

#51

Post by masklinn »

csomar wrote: post #43
masklinn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but firebug blows chrome's debugger out of the water. Could you please describes the ways in which it "blows chrome's debugger" [actually the Webkit Development Tools, it's been much more than a debugger for quite a long time) "out of the water" in your opinion?

There is no equivalent to the Firefox JavaScript console, especially when you add the jQuery plugin to it. Chrome console sucks. Their DOM explorer is superior in some ways, though.

> There is no equivalent to the Firefox JavaScript console [...] Chrome console sucks.

So there is indeed an equivalent, which you don't like for reasons you refuse to explain. I am disappoint.

Re: Firebug Metamorphosis

#52

Post by masklinn »

etherealG wrote: post #36
nowarninglabel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'd also like to see an analysis of this. I used to be an automatic 'switch to Firefox for debugging' user, but I find that the Chrome developer tools are now pretty sufficient.

a small example, not really analysis, but it does count. one of the reasons I still use ff instead of chrome for debugging is that on post requests viewing the raw source of a page requires chrome to repost to the server. ff just shows me the page/data as it came back without the repost, which can be critical in debugging stateful posts where a double post effects state.

I'll have to test that, that doesn't seem to happen in the resource viewer of Safari 5.

Re: Firebug Metamorphosis

#53

Post by masklinn »

rhodimus wrote: post #26
masklinn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find myself going back to Firebug if I have to do any serious debugging Why? What difference do you see between the browsers debugging-wise?

> Why? What difference do you see between the browsers debugging-wise? Feature-wise, very little. But as I said - I do find I can work faster with Firebug - I much prefer the the DOM inspector (one click node editing, css editing, the fact that it live updates the DOM as it is changed via any JS running on the page) and the console (DOM/JS object inspection and having XHR logging in the console itself and not on anot…

> one click node editing

Yes the Webkit DOM inspector lacks that.

> css editing

It does have that on the other hand.

> the fact that it live updates the DOM as it is changed via any JS running on the page

My DOM inspector does seem to do that as well, though it doesn't highlight the altered subtrees the way Firebug does.

> DOM/JS object inspection

Has been in for a long time, though it could be missing some bells and whistles.

> having XHR logging in the console itself and not on another tab

Matter of tastes there, we'll have to agree to disagree as I'm not fond of this at all.

> Plugins such as FireQuery also make a difference for my needs.

Yes that I will easily give you.

Re: Firebug Metamorphosis

#54

Post by ptarjan »

masklinn wrote: post #22
rottencupcakes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I browse in Chrome, but the second I start debugging JS/AJAX i'll open Firefox and use that. It's 10x slower, it has Memory leaks up the wazoo, but firebug blows chrome's debugger out of the water.

> but firebug blows chrome's debugger out of the water. Could you please describes the ways in which it "blows chrome's debugger" [actually the Webkit Development Tools, it's been much more than a debugger for quite a long time) "out of the water" in your opinion?

One wonderful thing about Firebug:

When editing a CSS property, pressing UP and DOWN will iterate through all of the possible values of that property. For example, editing "display: none", you can quickly find out what values "display: " can take.

I really miss that in the chrome debugger :(

Re: Firebug Metamorphosis

#55

Post by SkyMarshal »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #11
dboyd wrote: post #9

With no doubt, the Firebug team can take credit for changing the world of Web development. These guys aren't giving themselves enough credit. IMO, they can take credit for advancing the world of Web development. While the other development tools are (quickly) catching up, firebug is still leading the pack.

I've pretty happily switched to Chrome, which seems to do everything I used to ask Firebug to do. Although honestly I no longer use Firebug because I no longer use Firefox, and I no longer use Firefox because it takes up an obscene amount of vertical real estate compared to Chrome.

'Obscene' is an overstatement. FF vs Chrome:

http://imgur.com/P5Mw6.png

Re: Firebug Metamorphosis

#56

Post by SkyMarshal »

rottencupcakes wrote: post #19
erikpukinskis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've pretty happily switched to Chrome, which seems to do everything I used to ask Firebug to do. Although honestly I no longer use Firebug because I no longer use Firefox, and I no longer use Firefox because it takes up an obscene amount of vertical real estate compared to Chrome.

Personally I browse in Chrome, but the second I start debugging JS/AJAX i'll open Firefox and use that. It's 10x slower, it has Memory leaks up the wazoo, but firebug blows chrome's debugger out of the water.

FF must be optimized for Linux or something, b/c on my Ubuntu 10.04 workstation it runs roughly the same as Chrome and Chromium do, in fact it's even more stable for me with tons of tabs open (though I haven't used Chrome in several months so maybe that's changed?).

Re: Firebug Metamorphosis

#57

Post by blasdel »

andrerobot wrote: post #44

Has someone looked at the Web Console features ? https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Using_the_Web_Console It is just a simple console like Firebug Lite. Even the site says "The Web Console won't replace more advanced debugging tools like Firebug", so why is the Firebug team so worried about it? Firebug is a great tool for Mozilla browsers and I feel that considering porting Firebug to other browsers could be a difficul…

The Firebug team is worried because Mozilla have been passive-aggressively antagonistic towards them for a long time. Mozilla heavily promoted their abjectly useless "Web Developer Toolbar" extension for years, even bundling it with the browser by default. They also have not been shy about breaking Firebug with every major release, basically not taking it seriously at all.

Now they've started down the usual embrace-extend-extinguish path that they've taken before with Firefox extensions — bake an unremovable inflexible implementation of the basic functionality into the browser, with a perspective twist of some kind, and major core API changes that make it difficult for the original extension to continue development.

They're worried about them doing AwesomeBug in a future release.

Re: Firebug Metamorphosis

#58

Post by adhipg »

masklinn wrote: post #22
rottencupcakes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I browse in Chrome, but the second I start debugging JS/AJAX i'll open Firefox and use that. It's 10x slower, it has Memory leaks up the wazoo, but firebug blows chrome's debugger out of the water.

> but firebug blows chrome's debugger out of the water. Could you please describes the ways in which it "blows chrome's debugger" [actually the Webkit Development Tools, it's been much more than a debugger for quite a long time) "out of the water" in your opinion?

One thing that I always go back to Firebug is for the 'Persist' mode on the Network tab. In case your server side code is redirecting to some other page or site (payments etc) you need to see what was passed to the server and what redirection loops is it going through etc.

Another thing that I haven't found Chrome to be able to do is show me events in the DOM tree (I admit I need FireQuery to do that). That really helps you figure out what events are associated with a particular DOM element.

Re: Firebug Metamorphosis

#59

Post by robin_reala »

blasdel wrote: post #57
andrerobot wrote: post #44

Has someone looked at the Web Console features ? https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Using_the_Web_Console It is just a simple console like Firebug Lite. Even the site says "The Web Console won't replace more advanced debugging tools like Firebug", so why is the Firebug team so worried about it? Firebug is a great tool for Mozilla browsers and I feel that considering porting Firebug to other browsers could be a difficul…

The Firebug team is worried because Mozilla have been passive-aggressively antagonistic towards them for a long time. Mozilla heavily promoted their abjectly useless "Web Developer Toolbar" extension for years, even bundling it with the browser by default. They also have not been shy about breaking Firebug with every major release, basically not taking it seriously at all. Now they've started down the usual embrace-e…

Mozilla heavily promoted their abjectly useless "Web Developer Toolbar" extension for years, even bundling it with the browser by default.

The Web Developer Toolbar was made by Chris Pederick, not Mozilla. It’s also never been bundled with Firefox.

Re: Firebug Metamorphosis

#60

Post by robin_reala »

rhodimus wrote: post #26
masklinn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find myself going back to Firebug if I have to do any serious debugging Why? What difference do you see between the browsers debugging-wise?

> Why? What difference do you see between the browsers debugging-wise? Feature-wise, very little. But as I said - I do find I can work faster with Firebug - I much prefer the the DOM inspector (one click node editing, css editing, the fact that it live updates the DOM as it is changed via any JS running on the page) and the console (DOM/JS object inspection and having XHR logging in the console itself and not on anot…

FireQuery is seriously useful - I’m surprised at the number of web developers who haven’t used it.
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