Live data from Hacker News

Academia is a cult?

washingtonpost.com

11–20 of 135 posts

Re: Academia is a cult?

#11
I would really like to respectfully listen to the points of view of the author, but I do not like myself manipulated by this excessive over the top clickbait headings. I hope that we can all return to a more civil discourse without resorting always to the most extreme polarised positions that go by the phrases "influence" and "persuasion" these days.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#12
post #2

Are PhD degrees required to do machine learning research? Or can someone be completely self-taught and contribute to the field as much as those with PhDs?

no, not inherently. it helps, though.

note that a PhD in a computer science department is going to be much less bad than the humanities PhDs described in the article.

- they are fully funded, stipends are somewhat higher (at least not total starvation level), and there is the opportunity for lucrative industry internships

- students in general have leverage, because it's possible to leave and go get a high paying engineering job

- there's a bias towards continuing in academia but it's not taboo to go to industry; you don't have to lie about this.

- for a combination of these and other reasons, i don't think an abusive culture has set in: professors don't feel like they need to haze their students.

i don't mean to imply that everything is beautiful and perfect but it is way less culty.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#13

Something that David Graeber said that opened my eyes. Until the 1970s or so, Universities were actually a guild for academics geared towards the production of knowledge. They had self rules, titles, apprenticeship systems, and to some degree the backing and protection of the state. Plus like a true medieval guild, they were run by the masters of the guild itself. Sure, they did not call themselves guilds, but in for…

What would be your theory ?

Hah, I thought it would be funny to add that "left as an exercise to the reader" bit, a habit from my Math days.

Two things.

First, reading, writing, and arithmetic are no longer college level skills. That combined with computers means that the bar for government clerical work is much, much lower. The result is that in the 1920s a Philosophy grad would be extremely useful to a county government because of their general liberal arts education, nowadays a high school diploma does the trick. Doubly so now that everyone can use a computer to some degree or another. Without the critical function of providing clerks, Universities have lost a large amount of their value proposition to the government.

Second, since the 1970s both political parties have shifted away from the government as all of us striving together, to a necessary evil at best. The right has been extremely effective at villifying government action and government spending in particular. With that context in mind, it is not surprising that the right would aim to not only cut government spending on higher education (something that their religious wing also likes) to save on the tax money, but also to "starve the beast" in general.

Also, the 1970s were kinda crazy, and academia came out of that looking kinda extreme.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#14
Seems like this should be titled "Humanities Academia is a cult". Which is a conclusion with which I don't necessarily disagree. Frankly, the job numbers are out there. If you choose to get a PhD in history even after seeing them, you're probably delusional in some form.

I'm not so certain about STEM however. While cults can pop up anywhere there is a leader with a non trivial power dynamic, I'd say that a fair portion of professors in STEM will happily explain to you the harsh reality of academia and discourage you from getting a PhD. Furthermore, there are jobs outside of academia for PhDs, so there's a lot less lock in.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#15
In my experience there are multiple cutls within academia and they operate at different levels. In finance, for example, there is a cult of "efficient market hypothesis" and another cult of "behavioral finance". The two groups don't appreciate each other much although publicly they love to say how much they respect their colleagues from the other group.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#17
post #7

Washington Post is a cult.

You’re gonna get downvoted because this is HN but really this article is clickbait designed to exploit a growing epistemological crisis in the west. The author is just describing a group with a history and traditions. While cults are also groups with tradition and sometimes history it’s well disingenuous to say THAT is their defining feature.

EDIT: I’d just like to be clear that Academia has definitely got serious issues. But a person who establishes PhD level credentials in Marxist social analysis at the top of the article sure does spew a ton of words about material conditions without ever naming capitalism as the issue and instead blames “academia.” Oh, professors and grad students are terribly overworked but also they are administering a cult?

Re: Academia is a cult?

#18

A cult with levels that you literally have to pay for is also a pyramid scheme.

To be honest, it's the publishers that are to blame. I believe most scientist dont really care how it's published as long it is. The publishers run a pyramid scheme.

You can't blame the publishers for schools which are training people to be professors and little else at a rate 10x actually needed.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#19
I don't agree with this. A cult requires two things: your money and your loyalty. Neither gets your that far in academia. Look at all the people trying to get into Harvard. Many applicants would willingly pay way more than the tuition if to be guaranteed a slot (if Harvard slots were put to auction, I imagine bids would be very high), but so so few are accepted despite being able to pay. Scientology will accept anyone that can pay. Rather academia is more like professional sports in that it is very competitive and many try-out and few make it to the pros.

Re: Academia is a cult?

#20

Seems like this should be titled "Humanities Academia is a cult". Which is a conclusion with which I don't necessarily disagree. Frankly, the job numbers are out there. If you choose to get a PhD in history even after seeing them, you're probably delusional in some form. I'm not so certain about STEM however. While cults can pop up anywhere there is a leader with a non trivial power dynamic, I'd say that a fair porti…

Seems aligned with recent experiments with publishing garbage papers in, allegedly reputable, soft sciences journals: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/10/10/gri....

The concept of "idea laundering" is fascinating. It seems that, as of today, the incentives of the academics are simply misaligned with the those of the public.

Post reply on HN