Why I love Common Lisp and hate Java (2012)

Post by ggambetta » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 1:00 AM UTC

judgardner wrote: post #10

saagarjha wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you really want print() to be so easily accessible in the top-level namespace? It seems to me that the bigger an application gets, the worse it is to easily litter the codebase with print statements. Yes? It's great for debugging, which is generally what you'd use a print for anyways in a large application.

Whats even better than print for debugging is using a debugger...

Post by DenisM » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 1:01 AM UTC

haglin wrote: post #2

If you are running JDK 9 or later, you can use jshell: jshell> "Hello World!" $1 ==> "Hello World!" https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/222

Post by sifoobar » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 1:09 AM UTC

chvid wrote: post #6

haglin wrote: post #2

If you are running JDK 9 or later, you can use jshell: jshell> "Hello World!" $1 ==> "Hello World!" https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/222

And lambdas were introduced in 8 making nearly all of the author’s issues mute.

Post by sieabahlpark » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 1:12 AM UTC

judgardner wrote: post #14

ggambetta wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't quite work when debugging a distributed system, though. You end up adding a lot of "distributed print", AKA logging.

Fair enough, but attaching multiple debuggers across several interacting components with conditional breaks gets me there faster than incrementally inserting progressively more print statements, in a dev environment. Proper logging is a given doping out problems in a production system to then verify and correct in dev.

Post by rococode » Sun, Nov 04, 2018, 1:15 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #8

nayuki wrote: post #7

It is a recurring theme for people to point out how verbose a hello world program is in Java: class HelloWorldApp { public static void main(String[] args) { System.out.println("Hello World!"); } } For argument sake, let's compare it not to Lisp but to Python instead: print("Hello World!") Once you get proficient in a language and start writing larger programs, your perspective can change entirely. What appears to be…

> Do you really want print() to be so easily accessible in the top-level namespace? It seems to me that the bigger an application gets, the worse it is to easily litter the codebase with print statements. Yes? It's great for debugging, which is generally what you'd use a print for anyways in a large application.