Live data from Hacker News

Ask YC: Startup crisis. Out of money and tech co-founder has bailed.

news.ycombinator.com

81–90 of 241 posts

Re: Ask YC: Startup crisis. Out of money and tech co-founder has bailed.

#81
post #75
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I just thought it was amusing. I don't really care. To make this thread slightly more productive, I will recommend one such consultancy: Blue Flavor.

I will recommend one such consultancy: Blue Flavor. Since you're plugging them, could you disclose your relationship?

I'm a security researcher, not a web dev, so I'll just say there's no possible conflict.

Re: Ask YC: Startup crisis. Out of money and tech co-founder has bailed.

#82
post #14

There may be some legal action you could take - did you sign a contract with the developer? It won't solve your problem but it may get you some money back so you can divert it to some other development. At the moment, I think you need to get an opinion from a real developer who can look at the code and the project design to see how long it would take to get it to the prototype stage. Depending on that I would try to…

no project contract was signed - I was naive and had met her through a mutual friend, so I thought I could trust her and we could save some money. There is a contract for the company set and equity structure.

It doesn't matter if a legal contract was signed. As long as you undertook this venture with the agreement (verbal) that each person owns a part of the business, than it's the same as forming a legal partnership. Though, it wouldn't be useful to sue her unless you guys specifically agreed that she would finish the work, etc...

Re: Ask YC: Startup crisis. Out of money and tech co-founder has bailed.

#83
post #47
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the nurse doing? Ideas aren't worth 65% of the company alone. I don't know if it's intentional but it seems like a lot of people here are talking as if there were "rules", like "x% is fair, y% is unreasonable". There are rules of thumb. But compensation is a marketplace. If the founder has no leverage, taking a lower stake in exchange for salary isn't honorable. It's just stupid. Both parties need to feel li…

It doesn't matter what the nurse was doing, the developer was getting paid a good amount of money. If I was hired to do a project, and my payment was inline with my market value, I wouldn't care what my employer is doing as long as I kept getting my money. $6900/m sounds like market value to me. If I was in the nurses position, I would have offered 1% equity on top of $6900/m

It doesn't matter what the nurse was doing OR how much the developer was getting paid. The developer agreed to the terms upfront (and I'm hoping there was some kind of contract involved). Renegotiating or asking for a raise is one thing, but this sounds a bit too much like blackmail to me.

Of course, there are two sides to every story.

Re: Ask YC: Startup crisis. Out of money and tech co-founder has bailed.

#84
Now is the time to be honest with yourself. You need to find out why she left. People usually complain about money/equity issues when they think the situation is so crappy that only money/equity can keep them in the situation. Was there a lot of scope creep?

Let me pose this hypothetical situation. You contract with this developer to create your web app before you have fully spec'd it out. But that's okay because you're using more of an agile approach. The developer gets on with her job of creating a basic prototype and you tackle issues as they arise. Things begin to change and you see want a few minor changes to the web app. The developer not being very assertive, says okay to most change requests. But 6 months in things have changed so much that the developer realizes that this project will be in perpetual beta. You are frustrated because the developer hasn't finished when she said she would. She's frustrated because she realizes just how extensive the web app is and that she underestimated the amount of work that would be involved (and with the feature creep there is even more work now to boot). Both of you are so far away from the original terms of the agreement that the whole thing leaves a sour taste in your mouth. She can walk. But you're left with the tab.

If this sounds like your situation, I know it won't make you feel any better, but it's a common story. I think what you need to do is offer the developer a way to save face while helping get you out of your current rut. Chances are she's not very proud of having bailed on the project, nor does she want bad word of mouth to spread. She was probably frustrated. Can you identify her frustrations and address them? If so, can you talk her into re-joining the team and giving her the 35% equity? Right now, you have 94% of a whole lot of nothing. If she doesn't want to re-join fully, ask her if she will help document the project and transition it to another developer for you. If she does this, you will give her the existing 6% equity in the company. If she flat out refuses to talk to you, keep your composure and be polite but let her know that under the circumstances you feel her monthly payments were more than acceptable compensation and she has no equity. If this happens, your money is gone and isn't worth pursuing. But I would contact a lawyer in order to sort out this non-documented partnership. You will want her to sign something because right now there are a whole bunch of ugly intellectual property ownership issues that you are at risk of down the road.

Re: Ask YC: Startup crisis. Out of money and tech co-founder has bailed.

#85
post #60
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"this is a set of circumstances where the developer had most of the leverage, you failed to recognize it and got burned" This is true to a degree. We agreed to the initial arrangement as a fair deal, but I didn't appreciate the way she swtiched terms on me, and then bailed when the going got tough. (ie funding ran out)

Doesn't speak well to her commitment to the company, but she probably was right about being owed more equity in the company, if only because her leaving really has taken out a good chunk of the value of the enterprise.

"Commitment to DrinkoCorp" is not actually a virtue, just so we're clear.

Re: Ask YC: Startup crisis. Out of money and tech co-founder has bailed.

#86
Does anyone else think that a salary of $6,900 is too much? I even think that $3,000 is too much... Of course my situation in South Africa might be a lot cheaper. I got away with $1,250 per month, and even then I was able to live pretty comfortably.

Re: Ask YC: Startup crisis. Out of money and tech co-founder has bailed.

#87
post #83
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter what the nurse was doing, the developer was getting paid a good amount of money. If I was hired to do a project, and my payment was inline with my market value, I wouldn't care what my employer is doing as long as I kept getting my money. $6900/m sounds like market value to me. If I was in the nurses position, I would have offered 1% equity on top of $6900/m

It doesn't matter what the nurse was doing OR how much the developer was getting paid. The developer agreed to the terms upfront (and I'm hoping there was some kind of contract involved). Renegotiating or asking for a raise is one thing, but this sounds a bit too much like blackmail to me. Of course, there are two sides to every story.

Blackmail?! She didn't take the company hostage. She quit it. You can always quit. I can always fire you.

If you make a mistake when you negotiate a position, you are not ethically required to "ride it out" to some foreordained date.

Re: Ask YC: Startup crisis. Out of money and tech co-founder has bailed.

#88
post #77
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is "learning to hack" the answer here? Doesn't that leave this person with a startup with no team?

Either learn to hack, or find others who are passionate about the idea who can hack. Rather than people who are passionate about a salary. But doing both is a good idea IMHO.

Would definitely help them manage developers in the future. The best manager I ever had couldn't write a line though.

Re: Ask YC: Startup crisis. Out of money and tech co-founder has bailed.

#89
post #85
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't speak well to her commitment to the company, but she probably was right about being owed more equity in the company, if only because her leaving really has taken out a good chunk of the value of the enterprise.

"Commitment to DrinkoCorp" is not actually a virtue, just so we're clear.

I disagree, at least in the general case. I believe everyone has a basic responsibility for the well-being of others (insofar as you can reasonably help), and so even if the negotiated agreement is bad I think it's more virtuous to end on good terms. Threatening to quit just because you have a ton of leverage isn't illegal or immoral, but I'd look down on somebody who did it as prizing money over relationships, which to me is definitely a vice.

Re: Ask YC: Startup crisis. Out of money and tech co-founder has bailed.

#90
Ok, so this is what happens to startups, step two survive.

The first thing you need to do is get her to either sign a non-compete, sign away the company, or make you an offer to buy out her shares. Something legal might be necessary. If she is willing to sign a non-compete, and finish the project that is what you want, else, options 2 and 3 are on the table.

Next you need to finish your project. http://uservoice.com/ provides an outsourced software feedback engine for a website. If your feedback engine is more specific to your business process then you need still need to hire a developer.

At this point in the process, if you need to find a technical co-founder, i would skip it and go right for a freelance developer. You have developed most of the idea, and now you just need to round the corners, this is a perfect job for someone that just wants a pay check. I suggest 2 options to finding a developer.

Option 1, go your local colleges TODAY! and talk to career services. You might be able to find a programmer that can pick up fairly quickly what your previous developer did. You might be able to get away with $10-$20 an hour.

Option 2, i have heard of good things from http://programmermeetdesigner.com/, or another place to pay someone for a project.

Ok, so the final thing you need to do is to raise more money. Either sell the app now on a trial basis or something. You might be able to get some cash in the door to help with legal fees, and to pay your new designer. You might find it easier to see if you can get another $50k right now from an Angel, Prosper.com, or from a potential customer that might loan you the money.

I hope that helps. If your product is medical related, I know some people who might be able to help you in Wisconsin.

Post reply on HN