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A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming

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171–180 of 473 posts

Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can't really compare them to the government until they have a standing army. While I disagree that the firms in question have government-like comprehensive power, even without their own army, a monopoly or coordinating oligopoly able to lock out new participants on essential communication services would have such power, and be a de facto part of the government, even if they lacked formal command relationship ove…

There is a lawsuit where a company owned this mining company town, including all of its roads and sidewalks. A Jehovah's witness won a lawsuit on the basis of the First Amendment, enabling her to walk about that town and distribute her pamphlets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBozijndSLc Originally, it was widely recognized by US jurisprudence, though property rights and freedom of association are important, the Fi…

> There is a lawsuit where a company owned this mining company town, including all of its roads and sidewalks

And when a single company has similar control over the internet, even for a particular group of people such that they are otherwise unreachable (as AT&T once did nationalky over telephone communications), Marsh v. Alabama might be relevant (It might not, since active relaying is not the same of not denying access to property, and is itself an issue of the first amendment rights of the party who would be compelled to relay the speech.) That's not the case now, and the Marsh v. Alabama doctrine does not compel internet companies to relay content they don't want to, see Cyber Promotions v. America Online.

> Originally, it was widely recognized by US jurisprudence, though property rights and freedom of association are important, the First Amendment was even more important.

The issue with regard to relaying is neither a free association nor a property issue, but a free speech/press issue—whether the state can compel a party to actively participate in relaying ideas that they do not wish to participate in.

Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming

#172
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a recipe for creating a lot of people with very little or nothing to lose.

Nah, I think the real danger is when they find others who re-affirm their convictions.

You are advocating isolating, deplatforming, etc.. These are tactics that hurt. Hurt people hurt people. If people are allowed to be heard and socialize, they gain happiness and are less likely to hurt people.

Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming

#173
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has lost their first amendment rights and the person you're replying to hasn't made such an argument at all - your paraphrase is just putting words in their mouth. That's a cheap and poopy thing to do.

Nobody has lost their first amendment rights That's just what Universities say when they create protest zones where no one can see the protest. That's what Universities say when they slap outrageous fees and fines on groups who invite speakers they don't like. Technically, they're correct, but in the spirit of the law, suppressing speech is what they are seeking to do. the person you're replying to hasn't made such a…

> The person I'm replying to is advocating for the practical loss of free speech

No, I'm arguing that your free speech rights do not give you the right to compel me to repeat your speech for you, and that the idea that they do negates my free speech rights.

Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming

#174
post #46
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but they will be isolated, and an isolated person is powerless person.

They are not isolated from each other , they are just detached from those who don't what to hear them. Imagine that you have a piece of rotting meat. It's unsightly and it stinks. So you hide it under the carpet. Now it's gone from view, and the smell is nearly gone. But it's still rotting down there, and at one moment you'll have to face what it will turn into.

Your analogy fails for me because the rotting meat you refer to are free people. You speak of these people as if they should be controlled. Where is the room for their inalienable rights?

Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming

#175
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free to make whatever argument you want - what you can't do is deliberately misrepresent the other person's argument, which is what you are doing. HN even has a weird rule about that involving quotation marks. There's no 'technically' about this, you're doing it, it's bad and you shouldn't.

I'm not misrepresenting the other's argument at all. I'm clarifying it.

[deleted]

Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure that you can find a Soviet study indicating that certain of their programs had an effect against Bourgeois oppressor thinking and activity for some number of years. Again, no gulags here. Just Twitter, Reddit, and bad clones of the aforementioned. It's also worth noting that the Soviet Union, at its best, simply was not a liberal democracy. The position that I'm taking is nonsensical outside of a liberal d…

There's no conditioning going on. The general population that grew up online in web forums is very much conditioned to accept totalitarian dictates about who can say what, where. Even to the point where they concoct ideology about it. a discussion that's been going on for as long as liberal democracies have existed The US government coming in and telling a private entity, no you must tolerate free speech on your prop…

> Originally, it was widely recognized by US jurisprudence, though property rights and freedom of association are important, the First Amendment was even more important.

Freedom of association is the first amendment.

Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, almost no one cares what a Jehovah's witness has to say. The US government coming in and telling a private entity, no you must tolerate free speech on your property is historical fact and precedent. There is a lawsuit where a company owned this mining company town, including all of its roads and sidewalks. A Jehovah's witness won a lawsuit on the basis of the First Amendment, enabling her to walk about that…

It sounds suspiciously as if you're drawing a direct comparison between the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War 2 and Gab getting kicked off GoDaddy. That can't possibly be an argument you really want to make.

His argument is that few people caring about something doesn’t mean that thing doesn’t matter.

Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds suspiciously as if you're drawing a direct comparison between the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War 2 and Gab getting kicked off GoDaddy. That can't possibly be an argument you really want to make.

His argument is that few people caring about something doesn’t mean that thing doesn’t matter.

Isn't that, like, an extremely banal observation? It doesn't mean it does matter either. Meanwhile: what was the point of comparing this situation to internment camps?

Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, almost no one cares what a Jehovah's witness has to say. The US government coming in and telling a private entity, no you must tolerate free speech on your property is historical fact and precedent. There is a lawsuit where a company owned this mining company town, including all of its roads and sidewalks. A Jehovah's witness won a lawsuit on the basis of the First Amendment, enabling her to walk about that…

It sounds suspiciously as if you're drawing a direct comparison between the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War 2 and Gab getting kicked off GoDaddy. That can't possibly be an argument you really want to make.

[deleted]

Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His argument is that few people caring about something doesn’t mean that thing doesn’t matter.

Isn't that, like, an extremely banal observation? It doesn't mean it does matter either. Meanwhile: what was the point of comparing this situation to internment camps?

Banally true, yes.

> It doesn't mean it does matter either.

Someone said something doesn't matter because "few people care", just one example of something that mattered and about which also "few people cared" refutes that reasoning. They're not making an argument, they're refuting one.

edit: Another example would be Linus' announcement of Linux at the time. Few people cared, in contrast to the people who today find Linux extremely important, or depend on it without knowing. And there you go, I now made a "direct" (whatever that means) comparison between Linux and Japanese being put into concentration camps in the US, as well as a "direct" comparison between Linux and neo-nazis being deplatformed. The point matters more than the comparison used to make it.

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