On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score • Hacker News Board

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#321

Post by bdhess » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 4:42 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #310

atourgates wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something about air travel that makes it a uniquely terrible experience and drives me to participate in these programs. There is nothing I do in my life regularly where I'm more restricted, or more closely related to a rigid caste system than air travel. Every time you take a flight, for somewhere between 3 and 20 hours, you're told exactly where to stand, where to sit, what you can and can't wear, what you c…

This makes sense, but my reaction is the exact opposite. If they're going to structure it to be shitty so I do what they want, then I'm for damned sure not going to do what they want. One of my big life rules is "don't feed pigeons." I mean it metaphorically, of course. Pigeons are machines for turning food into pigeon shit and more pigeons, and I'm not a big fan of either. A clearer version is something like, "don't…

> If they're going to structure it to be shitty so I do what they want

They've structured it to be shitty because that's what the market wants: the lowest cost product. When I fly the major carriers, I often still see the "premium economy" seats available for purchase at check-in. Those cost an extra $50-100 to get extra legroom, early boarding, etc. These are the same perks that they provide for free to their entry-level frequent fliers.

It turns out that most people just aren't willing to pay 10-20% extra for a better experience. They'd rather buy the cheapest ticket, suck it up for a couple hours, and grouse about how bad air travel is afterwards.

By not joining a frequent flyer program, you're not stymieing them or anything. Non-loyalty customers looking for the lowest price is their bread and butter for filling up the back half of the plane. The service will be perfunctory and the experience will be marginal, because that's what most people are willing to pay for.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#322

Post by notatoad » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 4:42 AM UTC

mehrdadn wrote: post #91

> Zeta Global, whose clients include wireless carriers, generates scores using data points such as the number of times a customer has dialed a call center and whether that person has browsed a competitor’s website or searched certain keywords in the past few days. Wait, so this means I dial a number and they link my identity to my browser to tell whether I've browsed a competitor's website in the past few days? Is th…

every time i hear about tracking like this, i start to get paranoid and think about trying to restrict my trackability. But then i remember that if i search for (to give last week's example) a new travel mug on amazon, and then buy a new travel mug on amazon, i continue getting "retargeting" ads from amazon for the exact same product for two weeks after purchasing it.

If amazon can't figure out whether or not to advertise something to me after i've already bought the thing they're advertising while i'm signed in to their website, i don't have much faith in anybody's ability to fingerprint me from unauthenticated sessions across multiple mediums and multiple companies. I can believe somebody is trying to sell a service that claims to do this, but i don't beleive they actually can.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#323

Post by notatoad » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 4:47 AM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #6

“Not all customers deserve a company’s best efforts,” says Peter Fader, a marketing professor at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School who helped popularize lifetime value scores. I feel like this is a succinct argument against the idea to privitize everything — there’s no accountability nor notion of “fairness” baked in whatsoever.

>Not all customers deserve a company’s best efforts

it might not sound nice to phrase it that way, but don't the most loyal or high-value customers deserve better support? If you spend $100k a year on office supplies at staples, you're going to get more attention than a guy who goes in to buy a ream of paper. what's unfair about that?

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#324

Post by mattkrause » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:02 AM UTC

nobody271 wrote: post #188

Honestly, this sounds like a pretty practical feature. Just do some basic arithmetic on key variables to let customer service know how much of that all too prescious resource (effort) they have to spend on that call. I think the real problem is a lot more nuanced, though. For one, even tiny unsophisticated call centers implement painfully slow numeric menu navigation that always gives you that extra little kick in th…

I don't understand where everywhere does not have an option to call you back.

If it's a toll-free number, they're paying for the call either way. It wouldn't require extra staff or even extra time per call (start the callback slightly before the agent is actually free). It would, however, be vastly nicer for the customer.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#325

Post by acct1771 » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:03 AM UTC

kenneth wrote: post #153

CrackpotGonzo wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was lucky enough to fly Global Services on United through my old boss' account at my old company. Flew internationally a couple of times and the level of attention was insane. Get to airport and they walk you to the lounge, past security, and then come grab you when you're ready to pre-board (before everyone including military). My connecting flight was delayed by 20 minutes, cutting down my connection time to 50 m…

Global Services is insane. Qualification requirements are insane, too. It's invite-only, based on unpublished criteria. It's speculated that when based at a hub airport like SFO, it takes about $75k in annual spend on full-fare United first of business tickets. There are a few other ways to qualify: fly 4 million miles with United, marry a million-miler who has GS, pre-pay $250k towards airfare for your company, or $…

If your dream includes spending that much time on an airplane, I guess I understand why this "elite status" is a dream of yours!

Personally, I'd rather never have to get on a plane - unless I'd like to.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#326

Post by valleyer » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:08 AM UTC

kirse wrote: post #316

atourgates wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something about air travel that makes it a uniquely terrible experience and drives me to participate in these programs. There is nothing I do in my life regularly where I'm more restricted, or more closely related to a rigid caste system than air travel. Every time you take a flight, for somewhere between 3 and 20 hours, you're told exactly where to stand, where to sit, what you can and can't wear, what you c…

Every time you take a flight, for somewhere between 3 and 20 hours, you're told exactly where to stand, where to sit, what you can and can't wear, what you can and can't carry. On the other hand, it no longer takes months to travel West and half your family generally doesn't die of dysentery on the way there.

I believe car travel provides that same benefit without the dehumanization.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#327

Post by mattkrause » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:08 AM UTC

YokoZar wrote: post #216

blakesterz wrote: post #78

"Marital status is often factored in, with some companies assuming that singles are better customers, and others, the opposite. Age also is a common input, potentially penalizing older people because of their shorter projected lifespans." Odd paragraph... It seems like those things could go either way depending on the company. I'm sure we could all list companies that would bend over for old married people as much as…

That's exactly what the line says though. Some companies assume singles are better customers, and others, the opposite.

I think the point is that "assume" is a weird word: it is probably true, in a statistical sense, that married couples are more valuable to some companies, and less to others, and their models reflect that.

No one is saying "eh, screw the single people/happy couples" and tweaking the scores in some ad hoc way.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#328

Post by closeparen » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:10 AM UTC

kenneth wrote: post #57

The most obvious example of this in daily life is through airlines, where the difference is pretty transparent and you get night-and-day better service by being a loyal customer. With top status with AA and UA (EXP and 1K), you connected to U.S.-based very senior phone agents right away, who always make sure to take care of any issue that arises. 50min delay on your AA flight? No problem, sir, we are rebooking you on…

I’m not sure the thing being rewarded is loyalty. I take 3-4 personal trips a year; that’s nowhere near enough to earn status on any airline, even if I used the same one on 100% of my trips for a decade. (Eligibility thresholds are per year).

Status mainly seems to be a minor perk built into any job requiring frequent travel.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#329

Post by hexane360 » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:17 AM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #293

Scoundreller wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/urban-expedit... Says that a 737 flies on average 4300 miles per day, and that 7lb digital entertainment console costs $216 to carry per year. That's .000019 dollars per lb-mile. JFK-SFO is 2586 miles. That's $10 in fuel for carrying an extra 200lbs. But less passengers could mean more cargo...

$10/flight * thousands of flights per day * 365 days per year = real money. Airline margins can be ruthless.

$10/flight < ticket price

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#330

Post by 8bitsrule » Fri, Nov 02, 2018, 5:40 AM UTC

Huh. WSJ site put me 'on hold' becuz I'm not a subscriber.

This tactic seems a bit self-defeating in the end. Keep me on hold for over 15 minutes (never mind the music and mechanical apologies ... what a farce) and I guarantee you have lost a customer. (If I have any recourse, and I will assiduously seek one).

Modern business attitudes that don't strive to welcome all customers are, IMO, on death row. Perhaps they're too big to succeed. (Hello? Sears?) OTOH, businesses that welcomed my trade (or that great rarity, welcomed me by name!) have enjoyed steady business for decades. No doubt the revolution will fix that.