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On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

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Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#271

Post by heurist »

sjg007 wrote: post #254
dvtrn wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent: Are there other people here who just refuse to sign up for any of these programs? Right here. I was asked the other day if I had a rewards number at 7/11 and if I wanted to sign up for one, if I was "really sure" after I said no twice. 7/11 . I buy coffee there getting off the train. It's a convenience store. This....is getting ridiculous IMO. Amazon is getting their tentacles wrapped around so much (mild sa…

Rewards programs are basically the buy 9 coffees get the 10th free program. Grocery stores do gas rewards to favor certain purchases (presumably the more profitable ones or the ones they need to move) in lieu of discounting and then they also get to track everything you buy!

Loyalty programs do a bit more than the conventional punch card as they also track everything they can about you.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#272

Post by com2kid »

technofiend wrote: post #134
arebop wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: does anyone see these programs and think wow, this airline UX is so awful I want to show them my loyalty so that eventually they'll stop trying so hard to make me unhappy? I'm pretty convinced this all boils down to a sort of low-grade white collar corruption: people who travel a lot for business sometimes can get away with favoring one airline over another, where this decision costs the shareholders a little b…

>I'm pretty convinced this all boils down to a sort of low-grade white collar corruption: people who travel a lot for business sometimes can get away with favoring one airline over another, I suppose it depends on the business but at my Fortune 50 we're required to use "lowest logical airfare". You can force a choice of Southwest over United by choosing one airport over another, and there's enough wiggle room to let…

> But unless you're a highly placed executive no one travels on the company dime often enough to bother with air miles anyway; airlines require far too much travel for even the bottom-most loyalty tier.

People working in hardware manufacturing do!

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#273

Post by wlll »

wpietri wrote: post #96
kenneth wrote: post #57

The most obvious example of this in daily life is through airlines, where the difference is pretty transparent and you get night-and-day better service by being a loyal customer. With top status with AA and UA (EXP and 1K), you connected to U.S.-based very senior phone agents right away, who always make sure to take care of any issue that arises. 50min delay on your AA flight? No problem, sir, we are rebooking you on…

Tangent: Are there other people here who just refuse to sign up for any of these programs? I have family members who are super into frequent flyer programs, credit card points, etc, etc. But I don't like the cognitive load they introduce, and I don't like having to figure out how much I'm being manipulated in any given interaction. I get that I'm missing out on goodies, but they're paying for those goodies somehow, s…

I signed up for the BA frequent flyer program and "cognitive load" really didn't ring true for me.

Basically, I add my frequent flier number to the booking form online and that's it. When I hit Bronze (it's a couple of long flights or so) I don't need to do anything, I just get to skip the queue at checkin and (airport depending) security.

There's no sales, no emails, no upsell, my (travelling) life is just better after a couple of flights.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#274

Post by Karunamon »

vntok wrote: post #250
jklinger410 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, not 90%. But predictive modeling requires a bunch of data points. This is probably one of the most privacy aware crowds on the internet. If you go to the extremes, sure, everyone is trackable. I don't work for any of these companies, so I don't know what I don't know. Feel free to elaborate.

The more you try to obfuscate your online sessions (eg: by disabling browser features, disabling JS, removing fonts, removing WebRTC, using the privacy-aware browser-of-the-day, etc. thus making your fingerprint even more unique), the more you stand out from the regular users crowd, the more automated tracking machines/algos get interested in you as an abnormal datapoint, the more you are paradoxically at risk of bei…

How exactly do they intend on fingerprinting me with no JS? They get my IP and referrer - that's it.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#275

Post by ttty »

excalibur wrote: post #215
hetspookjee wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Android I browse by default with Firefox Focus and only to use sessions like posting this response I copy the URL to chrome and make the post. Than I'll go back to Focus. It's crude but Firefox Focus beats all browsers privacy and responsiveness on Android imo.

+1 for Focus, but I don't generally interact with HN through a browser on mobile. There's an app for that.

I think apps can track your hardware I'd. I'm not saying hn does that, but other apps might track you even better with an app.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#276

Post by sokoloff »

atourgates wrote: post #203
wpietri wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent: Are there other people here who just refuse to sign up for any of these programs? I have family members who are super into frequent flyer programs, credit card points, etc, etc. But I don't like the cognitive load they introduce, and I don't like having to figure out how much I'm being manipulated in any given interaction. I get that I'm missing out on goodies, but they're paying for those goodies somehow, s…

There's something about air travel that makes it a uniquely terrible experience and drives me to participate in these programs. There is nothing I do in my life regularly where I'm more restricted, or more closely related to a rigid caste system than air travel. Every time you take a flight, for somewhere between 3 and 20 hours, you're told exactly where to stand, where to sit, what you can and can't wear, what you c…

I like basic Southwest but would also include JetBlue in that set. Neither comes close to having status on Delta, though.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#277

Post by [deleted] »

tehwebguy wrote: post #258
wpietri wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent: Are there other people here who just refuse to sign up for any of these programs? I have family members who are super into frequent flyer programs, credit card points, etc, etc. But I don't like the cognitive load they introduce, and I don't like having to figure out how much I'm being manipulated in any given interaction. I get that I'm missing out on goodies, but they're paying for those goodies somehow, s…

Yeah, that was me before. Then I got super into it and earned a ton of miles, and used them on some some really cool experiences. Like 25+ int'l business class flights, 6 int'l first class and some more. UK x 3, Finland, Middle East, Japan x 2, Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia over a few years. Did what would have cost like $300k in flights and hotels for maybe a few grand across 5 vacations and still have like a mill…

[deleted]

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#278

Post by sokoloff »

hakfoo wrote: post #263
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. Southwest is hugely overrated imo. It’s one of those companies that maybe used to be better or something, so they have a whole class of fans who are blind to how lame they currently are. I’m probably that way about Apple :) Not that any of the other major carriers is much better. But I don’t love the lining up and then hoping for a good seat, they’re often not the cheapest, and letting everyone che…

My feelings on unbundling: it's less about the product, and more about product-market fit. Air travel was a premium market product for many Americans well within living memory. The old regulated-pricing model helped to reinforce this: airlines used to sometimes advertise "we're the same cost as the other guys, but our food is better/planes are faster/experience is superior." So people traditionally expect a certain d…

Economy airline travel is insanely cheap now, often quite a bit cheaper for two round trip tickets than driving the same distance in a personally owned car would cost.

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#279

Post by chx »

kenneth wrote: post #57

The most obvious example of this in daily life is through airlines, where the difference is pretty transparent and you get night-and-day better service by being a loyal customer. With top status with AA and UA (EXP and 1K), you connected to U.S.-based very senior phone agents right away, who always make sure to take care of any issue that arises. 50min delay on your AA flight? No problem, sir, we are rebooking you on…

Yeah, the service... I have been on Air Canada more than once as an economy class passenger and when they are late, all you get is an empty apology, if that. More likely nothing. But this summer, I was flying back from Europe to the 40th birthday of my best friend (no pressure!). And the flight to Abbotsford was late (boo) so I walked to the desk and asked whether they could put me on the Vancover flight. And since I had a paid business ticket they did without blinking an eye. Which is funny because the YVR flight is much, much more expensive than YXX. Another funny: the business check in agent in Toronto thanked me for providing the airport code, she said she never checked anyone in before to YXX...

Re: On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score

#280

Post by sokoloff »

Geekette wrote: post #123
kenneth wrote: post #57

The most obvious example of this in daily life is through airlines, where the difference is pretty transparent and you get night-and-day better service by being a loyal customer. With top status with AA and UA (EXP and 1K), you connected to U.S.-based very senior phone agents right away, who always make sure to take care of any issue that arises. 50min delay on your AA flight? No problem, sir, we are rebooking you on…

Except that airlines still get the bulk of their revenue from economy class. The average margin may be higher per business/1st class ticket but the bulk of total sales and profit comes from economy. The airlines' discriminatory marketing actions are buffeted by disparate nature of their customer base (a group of strangers who'll typically never meet again after sharing a flight) as travellers don't have enough intere…

> Except that airlines still get the bulk of their revenue from economy class.

That's exactly backwards from anything I've ever read about airline economics. Do you have any references to support?

https://kottke.org/17/03/the-economics-of-airline-classes

suggests that on a given BA LHRIAD flight, the 122 economy seats total about $107K, the 40 premium economy seats about $106K, the 48 business class seats about $322K, and the 14 first class $122K. The 14 first class seats out-rev (and out-profit) the entire economy cabin.

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