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Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

reuters.com

191–200 of 375 posts

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple was not nearly the giant it is now when it invented the smartphone. What revolutionary ground-breaking products has that company produced now that it has become a giant?

Exactly. they are kind of coasting on previous innovations made a long time ago. Same for Google: Since search, Gmail, Android and Maps I don't see much innovation coming from there either.

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Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple was not nearly the giant it is now when it invented the smartphone. What revolutionary ground-breaking products has that company produced now that it has become a giant?

Exactly. they are kind of coasting on previous innovations made a long time ago. Same for Google: Since search, Gmail, Android and Maps I don't see much innovation coming from there either.

Waymo? Duplex? Photos? Even Chrome is newer than the things you listed.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#193
post #125
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gab is such a great example of this. You have a new player in social media (yet we apparently need to break up the big tech companies because you can't enter the market anymore). It operates in a successful niche. And it also is home to many far-right actors who hate Jews and minorities. Yet the claim is that breaking up the tech companies would help stop hate. Tim Berners Lee has no salient point here whatsoever, an…

Gab (and Voat, and, er, Hatreon) were open attempts to create far-right versions of existing websites. I don't think they're good examples of the inevitability of hatred. I'd hazard a guess that many more people are angry about hate speech on Reddit than about hate speech over email. The difference is that one is a company and the other is a federated standard. If I've understood Tim Berners-Lee correctly, he wants t…

They were not created as such (well, maybe with the exception of hatreon). They were created to be similar platforms, competitors or clones, with a promise of better management/operation/features. See also: Vidme.

When you compete with a monolith, your early adopters will be the people thrown off the bigger ship, and most of those people were thrown off for a reason.

Very few alt-repreneurs seem to understand this

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#194
post #125
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gab is such a great example of this. You have a new player in social media (yet we apparently need to break up the big tech companies because you can't enter the market anymore). It operates in a successful niche. And it also is home to many far-right actors who hate Jews and minorities. Yet the claim is that breaking up the tech companies would help stop hate. Tim Berners Lee has no salient point here whatsoever, an…

Gab (and Voat, and, er, Hatreon) were open attempts to create far-right versions of existing websites. I don't think they're good examples of the inevitability of hatred. I'd hazard a guess that many more people are angry about hate speech on Reddit than about hate speech over email. The difference is that one is a company and the other is a federated standard. If I've understood Tim Berners-Lee correctly, he wants t…

What a word salad. Just because a website decides to censor unlawful and only unlawful content doesn't make it "openly far-right". Within the United States, hate speech is free speech and it's perfectly legal (except for calls for violence resulting in an immediate physical danger). Also, what the hell is a "radical centrist"? Is that what the progressives call any true liberal disagreeing with their intersectional vomit?

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#195
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at a certain rate of adoption doesn't that kind of become like "stop using email"

Nobody uses email any more ... I mean they use it but it's not a high-engagement medium. I'd guess nearly 90% of emails never get read.

> Nobody uses email any more

That's not my experience.

I use email. At work they use email. My mom uses email.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#196
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did I say something about 'trust' and 'government'? Seriously, I don't get the connection.

Your suggestion that large companies ought to be "bound by law" implies regulations by the government. Whether or not that is your intention is still up in the air. However, if the government owns the regulation then they get to set the standards of what a big company is on a per criteria basis. If the government is being attacked by a specific 'group', the government will then have the power to impose specific, targ…

Platforms are not people. Regulating the way that companies offer their services, tax them, and how they are allowed to be structured is not a limitation of free speech.

We already do it with every other industry, social media only enjoys a lassaiz-faire regulation environment because of how new it is, the law hasn't caught up.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#197
I'm hoping he provided some rationale about why Microsoft, Google, and Apple should be split up. The way the interview is quoting just a couple sentences, it's hard to tell.

If there's nothing besides the quote below, I'd consider this an extremely weird and weak argument:

> What naturally happens is you end up with one company dominating the field so through history there is no alternative to really coming in and breaking things up. There is a danger of concentration.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#198
post #3

> “If you put a drop of love into Twitter it seems to decay but if you put in a drop of hatred you feel it actually propagates much more strongly. And you wonder: ‘Well is that because of the way that Twitter as a medium has been built?’” How exactly is breaking up the tech giants going to solve this problem?

Yeah, this specifically is quite the top down approach. The realization to have is that social media/the internet is a tool, and how it's used (or becomes most popularly used) is simply a symptom, a sign, a reflection of the current state of society; yes, if we are reactive and not responsive with reasoning, critical thinking, then propaganda can flourish more easily.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose tech companies were no longer legally allowed to use the network effect (i.e. they had to provide open-access to their public data via API). Then this would enable alternative front-ends on twitter. This would then enable me to filter messages by positivity, or whichever criteria I choose (e.g. non-Russian-bots, non-shills). This is turn would then change the whole ecosystem. It would remove the perverse ince…

or just stop using twitter?

Not using twitter/facebook/google/etc doesn't exempt you from experiencing the negative effect they have on the internet and the world around you, though.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#200
post #139
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's so much right with your take here, IMO. It flies in the face of so much opposition from reality – much of it credible – like how the hell do you make money when you eschew walled gardens, engagement boosters, and adtech friendly practices? Do people even want to make the tradeoffs they'd have to? Is regulation too heavyhanded? Will it be that for as long as these systems can be turned into money machines, old…

I can't help but feel that the Internet is hamstrung by overreliance on advertising as a revenue model ... All of the opposing forces you describe simply evaporate if you charge a fee for access to the API. Something small and unobtrusive but which would at twitter scale add up to an awful lot of moolah. Because you're not trying to monetise your users beyond that it doesn't really matter if loads of people stop usin…

It matters if loads of people stop using it to the point that you can't keep the lights on.

I'd suspect that "loads," in fact the majority, of twitter users would not pay anything out of their own pocket to use it.

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