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Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

reuters.com

171–180 of 375 posts

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#171
post #2

I suggest the title be changed to remove “Father of Web”. “Tim Berners-Lee says…” is better.

Yeah. Honestly after his advocacy for the EME/DRM stuff it's hard for me not to be skeptical out-of-hand to any of his suggestions.

It's sad he didn't see that EME/DRM is ultimately a tool that massively benefits incumbents to the determent of literally everybody else.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or just stop using twitter?

at a certain rate of adoption doesn't that kind of become like "stop using email"

My daughter is in a youth choir, whose director insists on communicating with parents via their Facebook page, which is of course not publicly viewable. I have told her that I will not join Facebook solely to be able to read communications from her. I offered her my phone number and email address, and so now for important things she will send an email as well. But she was absolutely incredulous that someone was not on Facebook in this day and age, and was not interested in joining.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose tech companies were no longer legally allowed to use the network effect (i.e. they had to provide open-access to their public data via API). Then this would enable alternative front-ends on twitter. This would then enable me to filter messages by positivity, or whichever criteria I choose (e.g. non-Russian-bots, non-shills). This is turn would then change the whole ecosystem. It would remove the perverse ince…

How about a time limit on how long they can have exclusive rights to the network? Like a patent.

How about a limit on how long you have exclusive rights on a house you built, and did not sell? Okay, how about the exclusive rights on your blog that attracted a million subscribers? Should a government agency regulate what you post there?

I'm afraid this is a slippery slope leading to things far more dangerous than we have now.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies benefit from protections given to them by society. E.g. limited liability, copyright, patents and lots of others. So I think it's prudent to ask ourselves as a society from time to time if these privileges are still useful or maybe should be modified or revoked. I agree that for a lot of research you need to be of a certain size but I don't think you need to be a multi-hundred-billion dollar company. Apple…

Well, you don't think the society benefits from the companies? Where else would you get all the stuff we use for everything? Where do you get the factories? Where do you get the machines? Where do you get the software? If you don't think companies bring societal value, ask yourself what the alternatives are. There were a bunch of attempts in the 20th century, however it never ended good for the population.

I said "companies of a certain size". Don't make this into a socialism vs capitalism issue. Yes, companies benefit society. But I believe trillion dollar companies are a negative for society. They get way too powerful.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#175
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's so much right with your take here, IMO. It flies in the face of so much opposition from reality – much of it credible – like how the hell do you make money when you eschew walled gardens, engagement boosters, and adtech friendly practices? Do people even want to make the tradeoffs they'd have to? Is regulation too heavyhanded? Will it be that for as long as these systems can be turned into money machines, old…

"like how the hell do you make money " Well, you could charge for it. But of course you wouldn't be able to compete with free - you'd have to have competitors who needed to charge too. They do exist but are pretty niche. The WELL comes to mind. www.well.com If it's any help I applaud every newspaper that puts up a paywall, and more are doing it. It only came about when the industry was (is) about to be completely wip…

>Well, you could charge for it. But of course you wouldn't be able to compete with free - you'd have to have competitors who needed to charge too.

Are you sure about that? Twitter's annual revenue is 2.4 billion dollars, and they have 300 million users. $0.55/month per user is all it would take to match their current revenue.

Sure, when a service is getting up off the ground, you can't beat free, but for one that's established, like Facebook or Twitter, the subscription fees can be made miniscule.

As long as the advertising model is used, a set of perverse incentives exist that encourage social platforms to treat advertisers as more important than users, to inflate their user numbers, to lie about views, to tolerate fake accounts and harassment, and to close their APIs.

A $1 premium ad-free option with 50% adoption would increase twitter's revenue and remove the perverse incentives.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#177
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why call somebody on the phone when you can write them a letter? > the true value of social media is as a channel for advertising? That's probably too narrow. The value for me would be as a channel of communication.

Social media isn't faster or more efficient than email though. In fact it might be slower due to the amount of clutter and ads encountered when using facebook. The comparison between phones and post doesn't really hold up.

> Social media isn't faster or more efficient than email though.

What reality are you living in that Twitter is slower than email?

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suppose tech companies were no longer legally allowed to use the network effect (i.e. they had to provide open-access to their public data via API). Facebook and Twitter have public APIs.

Come on. Facebook and twitter APIs are so restricted you can't even build a usable alternative client (look at all twitter clients that we had a few years ago, they are all gone now).

Facebook won't even let you read public events through their API anymore, public events created by businesses that want the public to attend, that are visible to anyone even if they're not logged in, that are easily searchable through Google.

But that's probably because the same day they removed that events API, they launched the Facebook Local app that shows all the events around you. Can't have anyone competing with your app.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you don't think the society benefits from the companies? Where else would you get all the stuff we use for everything? Where do you get the factories? Where do you get the machines? Where do you get the software? If you don't think companies bring societal value, ask yourself what the alternatives are. There were a bunch of attempts in the 20th century, however it never ended good for the population.

I said "companies of a certain size". Don't make this into a socialism vs capitalism issue. Yes, companies benefit society. But I believe trillion dollar companies are a negative for society. They get way too powerful.

Only if they use their power to more bad things than good things.
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