What these reports often seem to ignore is that there is still biodiversity within our cities--sometimes a lot of it. If the default assumption is "city bad, wilderness good", we're never going to make any progress, because short of an apocalyptic event cities are here to stay. What we should be focused on is making the cities we live in more sustainable and integrated with their ecosystems. Green roofs, urban parks, sustainable transportation networks, clean energy--there are plenty of avenues being explored today that are connecting our cities with nature. Cities should be a part of nature rather than apart from nature.
Protect the last of the wild
71–80 of 123 posts
Re: Protect the last of the wild
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Humans are primates, and most primates of the world are vegan, or nearly so, including our closest relatives. That's not something new.
Our two closest primate relatives are not vegan, they’re omnivores. Bonobos and chimpanzees hunt smaller mammals.
Most of their diet is fruit/leaves. The rest is squirrels. I don't see many people eating squirrels, but I see a lot of squirrels.
Re: Protect the last of the wild
#73Having grown up with a national forest as my literal backyard, its amusing and sad to hear so much nonsense spewed in this thread. Yes, we need to protect the wild, and inculcate respect for it in those that live in and visit it. My issue is with the naivety of proposed "solutions". One of the best examples I can give, though I have many, is this: my grandfather was a logger and firefighter in this forest in the 70s.…
Cattle are good for forests? I'm sorry but you're going to have to backup that statement.
They can be with proper handling and rotation. They are also vital for grasslands, not just forests. However, industrial raised beef is not good for forests, it's very very bad.
Re: Protect the last of the wild
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Our two closest primate relatives are not vegan, they’re omnivores. Bonobos and chimpanzees hunt smaller mammals.
Most of their diet is fruit/leaves. The rest is squirrels. I don't see many people eating squirrels, but I see a lot of squirrels.
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Re: Protect the last of the wild
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Canada has a terrible environmental record that completely undermines its progressive reputation. The tar sands project may be the single most egregious resources undertaking in history. But other so-called progressive industrialized nations aren't much better. Norway is also wealthy primarily due to the extraction of fossil fuels.
Hopefully with the oil prices so low and keep getting lower, the tar sands is a dead project
Low prices means higher consumption, which will do the opposite of kill off that project.
Re: Protect the last of the wild
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not ignoring, I'm disagreeing. My brother is a military officer, gets an annual physical, and his numbers are consistently great. A quick google finds studies supporting the idea that his results are typical. Here's one from 2016, which finds that more plant protein correlates with lower mortality, and more animal protein with higher mortality: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families... But a…
Ahem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_user_bias There are some studies that are coming out that undermine your idea that vegans are inherently healthier, such as the notice that vegetarians appear to have higher rates of cavities than the population at large. If you ask an anthropologist you'll know this is a big deal, because dental health is a great indicator of overall health. I think all the arguments about…
So that was not the case for my brother; his numbers were significantly worse and he was on medication, before he switched to veganism and greatly improved. In the study I posted, the meat-eaters were in the study too so I don't think that bias exactly applies, though in general dietary studies are always difficult.
I think I've read the same books as you, and agree with much of what you say. I would love to see us switch all our cattle over to Allan Savory's methods, and if lab-grown meat works out, maybe some ranchers will survive by providing premium grass-fed.
I've also read a stack of the better-known low-carb/paleo books. It just didn't work out for me, my results were horrific. It does seem to work for some people. Regarding cavities, perhaps there are tradeoffs to every diet.
In any case, as I said above I don't think vegetarianism is a way to save the world. Lab-grown meat is what will help save the world. Getting off oil will also be a huge help.
Re: Protect the last of the wild
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Our two closest primate relatives are not vegan, they’re omnivores. Bonobos and chimpanzees hunt smaller mammals.
Most of their diet is fruit/leaves. The rest is squirrels. I don't see many people eating squirrels, but I see a lot of squirrels.
Spend more times in the sticks. I’ve heard that squirrel is delicious.
Re: Protect the last of the wild
#78Having grown up with a national forest as my literal backyard, its amusing and sad to hear so much nonsense spewed in this thread. Yes, we need to protect the wild, and inculcate respect for it in those that live in and visit it. My issue is with the naivety of proposed "solutions". One of the best examples I can give, though I have many, is this: my grandfather was a logger and firefighter in this forest in the 70s.…
>Then after the forest service or BLM phds have fucked things up >The PhD environmentalists came to dominate the forest service What forest exactly? Because this reads like a really bad forwarded email. Most BLM "PhD's" are from the area they're protecting. They don't shift them around all over the country. Like, I'm not even sure what lead you to think that. Your arrogance is not as good as someone else's knowledge.…
I've worked with the BLM many times out West and your characterization does not comport with my experience. For example, during my many interactions with BLM in rural Nevada, an astonishing number of the local employees were New England natives that had recently graduated from environmental science programs. True locals were rare. (It was strange -- even the old timers that seemed like natives originally moved there from New England and just never left. Why always New England?)
BLM long-timers in the region were easy to work with and understood the nuances of the ecosystem well. Most of the conflict was when some recently transferred idealist with no experience in the high desert ecosystem decided that they needed to dramatically change how the ecosystem was managed, mostly just to show that there was a new sheriff in town, without understanding why things were managed the way they were. Normal human condition stuff. And yes, this occasionally produced real ecosystem destruction because they didn't understand the ecosystem interdependencies and weren't interested in listening. This always sorted itself out over time, they either quickly recognized that they didn't understand the ecosystem nearly as well as they thought they did and started listening to locals or they transferred back to the east coast, but there was always a steady stream of fresh young graduates cycling through to create new drama.
Re: Protect the last of the wild
#79I live in southeast Alaska, where we have a relatively healthy population of coastal brown bears. When we go into the woods, there is always a chance a bear could be nearby. Your first encounter with a brown bear in the wild can be unnerving. It's a really different feeling to see an animal that could easily kill you in the woods, without a wall or a fence between you and that animal. It's really humbling, and makes…
Was out in the wilderness on Vancouver Island, a place with the highest concentration of cougars in North America. You're right, it is a vastly different experience walking around an area like that knowing you're just a fragile voyeur in another animal's environment (especially something as silent and murderous as a big cat).
Re: Protect the last of the wild
#80This is a difficult issue. On the one hand, it is arrogant to sit in comfortable chairs imported to areas that live in excess and tell others to live with less so that we may appreciate their wilderness from afar; or ephemerally while we are on vacation. On the other hand, I am reminded of this letter/video which sums up an important ethos: https://vimeo.com/newmanfilm/wildernessletter . We should protect the wildern…
> Humanity doesn't need wilderness to survive and grow It is a very egoistic perspective (at the species level) that we can destroy species of plants and animals (and entire ecosystems) just because they don't serve us.
...and it's a bit naive to overlook the fact that we've already done this.
We've wiped hundreds of species off the face of the earth while coming to rely on other species that wouldn't exist without our intervention (e.g. livestock). Entire ecosystems have been destroyed simply because they don't serve us.