Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated' • Hacker News Board

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#151

Post by moneytide1 » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

monochromatic wrote: post #136

moneytide1 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you shared a plot of land with neighbors and contributed to upkeep. Essentially free. Not practical in urban setting, which is why I avoid cities.

It’s only free if your time is worth zero. It’s net more expensive if you have a job that you wouldn’t be doing.

The benefits mentioned in the parent could potentially be worth allocated time. Growing food does not require a quantity of time that would interfere with work - bulk labor is required for planting and harvesting, but monitoring growth throughout the season is a great pre/post work activity to share with others.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#152

Post by paulie_a » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 2:14 PM UTC

Flavius wrote: post #91

paulie_a wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make an effort to reduce energy consumption simply from a cost basis. It is better for the environment obviously, but eating less meat is simply not going to happen.

This makes no sense. Eating meat is just as expensive as energy consumption. Food can be just as delicious with 20% meat instead of 80% meat. Why would you insist on eating as much as possible?

I didn't say I was eating as much as possible. I said I am going to continue to eat it at the same rate I currently do. Personally I am not going vegetarian.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#153

Post by Vinnl » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 2:16 PM UTC

hueving wrote: post #73

Vinnl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all of these things are set in motion by people making efforts like going vegetarian.

No, people making personal efforts like that has the opposite effect. It makes them think they are doing something that matters so they don't put any effort into pushing for the drastic changes required to fix the problem. People making individual efforts like that is about as useful as praying when it comes to preventing tragedy of the commons scenarios.

I know that people sometimes excuse bad behaviour by their other bad behaviour; however, to stick with the vegetarian example: more and more people around me, and in my country and general, have been going vegetarian, and this process is only accelerated because it is easier than ever to become one due to supermarkets and restaurants catering to this growing group.

So sure, people are not going to be perfect immediately, but there's no doubt that even the non-vegetarians are far more aware of these issues due to the number of vegetarians around them. Meanwhile, the environmentally-friendly parties in my country and the surrounding ones have been growing in popularity.

Besides, I'm not quite sure how you think people are going to be pushing for drastic changes if every step towards that actually is a step away from it. Would actively dumping toxic waste in our rivers be better?

For change to happen, there needs to be a widespread push for it, and that widespread push isn't going to happen unless awareness spreads. Sure, it might already be too late for that push to make a difference, but about not doing anything we can at least be sure that it will not make a difference.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#154

Post by ablation » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

I find that the impending climate cataclysm is really starting to affect me and my day to day life in the form of crushing depression and anxiety. It's such a huge, nebulous, threatening issue that I can't even begin to think how we go about mitigating it (as preventing it entirely seems like a dead horse to flog at this point).

I'd be really curious to know if anyone else is feeling like this? And how you may have gone some way to alleviating it through positive means? I'm always looking for practical things I can do to contribute towards a solution, even if they're small (e.g. vegan diet, strict recycling, cycling/walking nearly everywhere and so on). But it feels like a drop in the ocean. And it's really starting to weigh heavy on me mentally, as trivial as that may seem in the grand scheme of things where the future of our species might be a stake.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#155

Post by agumonkey » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 2:25 PM UTC

chewz wrote: post #131

agumonkey wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots suggest shifting to chicken is already a good step

Not for the chicken

Well that's another debate

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#156

Post by mercer » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 2:26 PM UTC

ablation wrote: post #154

I find that the impending climate cataclysm is really starting to affect me and my day to day life in the form of crushing depression and anxiety. It's such a huge, nebulous, threatening issue that I can't even begin to think how we go about mitigating it (as preventing it entirely seems like a dead horse to flog at this point). I'd be really curious to know if anyone else is feeling like this? And how you may have g…

I'm doing very few of those things, and while it weighs on me, I think the net effect on my happiness is a drop in the bucket compared to any efforts to affect my direct surroundings positively. Do you do volunteer work, or anything in that direction? It might feel insignificant, but it's important to remember you're human, and likely to be affected more by 'direct' things, however pointless they might seem in the grander scheme.

The way I see it, it's a bit like putting on your own oxygen mask first. I've been burned out on working on 'bigger things', and in hindsight I wish I'd made sure to have 'smaller things' alongside to provide me with positive energy.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#157

Post by ljcn » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 2:29 PM UTC

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #37

DennisP wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do that stuff but it's not going to save the world. To save the world we need: a substantial price on carbon, a faster path to developing advanced nuclear power (in addition to continuing renewables deployment), a major rollout of lab-grown meat as soon as it's affordable with decent quality, negative emissions methods both technological (direct air capture) and biological (kelp, reforesting), and maybe some kind o…

> In short we need a global WWII-level effort. I agree. "It’s been a couple of weeks now since the IPCC report came out. You know what it says. If the whole damn species pulls together in a concerted effort “without historical precedent”— if we start right now, and never let up on the throttle— we just might be able to swing the needle back from Catastrophe to mere Disaster. If we cut carbon emissions by half over th…

> And also: how exactly do I explain to my children that the world they're growing-up in is in a dire state and soon may not even be able to support anything like a normal life for them? Ideas anyone?

They'll think it's normal, which is the real tragedy, but that's been happening for generations already. Your idea of normal is not as rich as your ancestors'. Wasn't North America abundant with wildlife when the Europeans arrived?

Tangential xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1321/

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#158

Post by Sacho » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 2:29 PM UTC

jahaja wrote: post #150

sunir wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may have sounded profound but it comes off poorly because it gets the theory of evolution completely wrong. Success is the differentiator that allows for the selection part of natural selection. Also evolution cannot “grind to a halt” because it is an outcome of thermodynamics. Evolution isn’t a metaphor. It is still the underlying physical process even in selection of political systems.

Did I though? Success is the differentiator post-mutation. If mutation itself ceases due to the prerequisite, evolution does too. But why do you feel the need to read and dissect an analogy so literally in the first place? It's not the point.

> If mutation itself ceases due to the prerequisite, evolution does too.

But then your reply doesn't make sense. Here's what parent said:

> There are plenty of attempts to think about other systems, implement them, and advocate for change. They all lack something important: success.

That part would imply that mutation is happening, just unsuccessfully. If you wanted to disagree with that, then your analogy was just confusing.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#159

Post by ljcn » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 2:32 PM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #118

DennisP wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do that stuff but it's not going to save the world. To save the world we need: a substantial price on carbon, a faster path to developing advanced nuclear power (in addition to continuing renewables deployment), a major rollout of lab-grown meat as soon as it's affordable with decent quality, negative emissions methods both technological (direct air capture) and biological (kelp, reforesting), and maybe some kind o…

> To save the world we need: a substantial price on carbon, No we don't. Global warming is a self-reinforcing effect. So there's no point to slowing down emissions. No point at all. Even if you get it to zero, the resulting concentrations will still accelerate into the right. Even if you get it negative at the same rate we're producing it today (which would eliminate all human co2 contributions EVER in ~60 years) wou…

> So there's no point to slowing down emissions.

> We need to adapt. To limit the damage, and fix things.

The first contributes to the second.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#160

Post by ablation » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

mercer wrote: post #156

ablation wrote: post #154

I find that the impending climate cataclysm is really starting to affect me and my day to day life in the form of crushing depression and anxiety. It's such a huge, nebulous, threatening issue that I can't even begin to think how we go about mitigating it (as preventing it entirely seems like a dead horse to flog at this point). I'd be really curious to know if anyone else is feeling like this? And how you may have g…

I'm doing very few of those things, and while it weighs on me, I think the net effect on my happiness is a drop in the bucket compared to any efforts to affect my direct surroundings positively. Do you do volunteer work, or anything in that direction? It might feel insignificant, but it's important to remember you're human, and likely to be affected more by 'direct' things, however pointless they might seem in the gr…

You make a good point. I think most of the paralysis and dread I feel comes from the fact that this is such a huge issue.

I've applied to volunteer at some conservation charities (Sea Shepherd, etc.) and am waiting to hear back how I can be useful to them.

I just can't shake the dread and negativity that comes over me whenever I think about it.