Google staff walk out over women's treatment • Hacker News Board

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#151

Post by readhn » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:16 PM UTC

"there's no real process in place for situations of misconduct in the office. ...why aren't they treating their organisation with the same rigor they treat their website."

there is an interesting tendency that many psychologists pointed out: in many professions for some reason psychopaths tend to get to the top an stay there. Specifically CEOs tend to be people with most psychopathic traits:

https://www.businessinsider.com/professions-with-the-most-ps...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wisdom-Psychopaths-Saints-Killers-S...

Now consider for a second, if you have psychopaths with money running the companies - why would they be interested in well being of their employees?

I am not saying every CEO is a psycho, but many are (as research shows):

https://hbr.org/2004/10/executive-psychopaths

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace

https://www.forbes.com/sites/victorlipman/2013/04/25/the-dis...

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#152

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #140

rurban wrote: post #131

Sounds like pre-unionizing to me. Wonder where this will lead to...

This is the most under rated comment in this thread. Don't know what the Google management is thinking at this point in time. But I'm damn sure, unless you are making it rain hundreds of millions in dollars, and you are a part of these pre-unionizing exercises- You are very likely getting marked up as a trouble maker, and may be already a part of purge lists. This is also a small industry. You don't want your name to…

> You are very likely getting marked up as a trouble maker, and may be already a part of purge lists.

This is also extremely illegal in the EU. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36242312

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#153

Post by EpicEng » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

nextstep wrote: post #147

brobdingnagians wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time magazine, which doesn't exactly seem to be a bastion of conservatism, had an article about this http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/ , which had more hard-facts than anyone else I've seen, but the conclusion was that most of the claims made by the wage gap supporters are cherrypicked and false. Although, if Google specifically has a problem with it, I'd definitely be willing to listen. If they are…

Time magazine is absolutely a right-of-center publication. Here’s a nice piece they published last week calling for more nationalism in the US: http://amp.timeinc.net/time/5431089/trump-white-nationalism-...

No it's not. You cherry picked an editorial written by an outside contributor. At the bottom you have:

>TIME Ideas hosts the world's leading voices, providing commentary on events in news, society, and culture. We welcome outside contributions. Opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of TIME editors.

You cannot label an entire outlet conservative or liberal because they bring in people of opposing views to write editorials unless there is an established bias over time (which you have not shown.)

It took me all of twenty seconds to find a liberal leaning editorial: http://time.com/5431836/dna-transgender-history/

Which part of the wage gap article do you disagree with?

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#154

Post by eli » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

alexis_fr wrote: post #105

qubax wrote: post #87

"A commitment to end pay and opportunity inequity"? I'm confused here. Are they demanding that preferential hiring and advancement practices and programs for women and certain minorities be stopped?

As you can see, the divide is becoming greater between ones who “believe” and ones who “don’t”, and the audience is massively imposing a bias here in this thread. We’ve lost our ability to listen to each other, and it’s sad that it happened on a topic which is still very easy to judge using science.

By science do you mean like phrenology?

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#155

Post by patrickg_zill » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:23 PM UTC

ChrisRR wrote: post #10

So the first demand is "A commitment to end pay and opportunity inequality" I'd like to see the actual data behind this constant inequality claim. I would be genuinely interested to see what kind of difference there is between the sexes when comparing like-for-like jobs. I've heard speculation that women don't argue for higher salaries as much as men, I've also heard that the data is never accurate because it doesn't…

Combining "pay inequality" and "opportunity inequality" makes it more difficult to discuss the issue.

We know already that "pay inequality" is fictitious at this point.

So by elimination, that leaves opportunity - however as anyone who has ever worked in a large company knows, it is very difficult, except in a very regimented corporate culture like the military, to have equivalent opportunity spread around evenly. I somehow think Google has a corporate culture that is not very regimented.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#156

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:27 PM UTC

nextstep wrote: post #147

brobdingnagians wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time magazine, which doesn't exactly seem to be a bastion of conservatism, had an article about this http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/ , which had more hard-facts than anyone else I've seen, but the conclusion was that most of the claims made by the wage gap supporters are cherrypicked and false. Although, if Google specifically has a problem with it, I'd definitely be willing to listen. If they are…

Time magazine is absolutely a right-of-center publication. Here’s a nice piece they published last week calling for more nationalism in the US: http://amp.timeinc.net/time/5431089/trump-white-nationalism-...

[deleted]

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#157

Post by claydavisss » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:28 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #58

anon1252 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no real process in place for situations of misconduct in the office. There shouldn't be a "process" set by Google when it comes to sexual harassment, employees should be able to sue, that's the process,sexual harassment is a crime, they can't sue because Google force them into arbitration, which should be illegal for an employer to do that to an employee IMHO. this is a denial of justice.

Employers have a duty of care to protect employees from harm in the workplace, and that includes protection from sexual abuse. A lot stuff that counts as sexual harassment in the work place is not a crime. You don't sue people who perpetrate crimes, you prosecute them. You're asking the victims of sexual harassment to persuade police to investigate and prosecutors to prosecute, and we know that they won't because we…

> Employers have a duty of care to protect employees from harm in the workplace

Yet common bullying and generally abusive workplaces are completely legal in California. You have the right to quit anytime, not much else.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#158

Post by learnstats2 » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:28 PM UTC

ChrisRR wrote: post #10

So the first demand is "A commitment to end pay and opportunity inequality" I'd like to see the actual data behind this constant inequality claim. I would be genuinely interested to see what kind of difference there is between the sexes when comparing like-for-like jobs. I've heard speculation that women don't argue for higher salaries as much as men, I've also heard that the data is never accurate because it doesn't…

Why should spending your time and effort arguing for higher salary entitle you to a higher salary? Surely, just the opposite.

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#159

Post by SolaceQuantum » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:29 PM UTC

ChrisRR wrote: post #10

So the first demand is "A commitment to end pay and opportunity inequality" I'd like to see the actual data behind this constant inequality claim. I would be genuinely interested to see what kind of difference there is between the sexes when comparing like-for-like jobs. I've heard speculation that women don't argue for higher salaries as much as men, I've also heard that the data is never accurate because it doesn't…

"Another stunning but perhaps unsurprising finding was that 63% of the time, men were offered higher salaries than women for the same role at the same company. The report found that companies were offering women between 4% and a whopping 45% less starting pay for the same job. "

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyatarr/2018/04/04/by-the-num...

Report referenced: https://hired.com/wage-inequality-report

Re: Google staff walk out over women's treatment

#160

Post by sunir » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:29 PM UTC

anon1252 wrote: post #28

slivym wrote: post #5

All of their demands seem pretty reasonable. It looks like the big gripe is that basically there's no real process in place for situations of misconduct in the office. To draw an analogy, this would be like Google not having a process to investigate and resolve site outages - it would be unthinkable, so why aren't they treating their organisation with the same rigor they treat their website.

> there's no real process in place for situations of misconduct in the office. There shouldn't be a "process" set by Google when it comes to sexual harassment, employees should be able to sue, that's the process,sexual harassment is a crime, they can't sue because Google force them into arbitration, which should be illegal for an employer to do that to an employee IMHO. this is a denial of justice.

Prosecution is one method of deterring thieves from robbing my store blind. I have also tried locked doors, security cameras and not leaving the store unattended.

I like your argument that it is cheaper to just let people rob me blind and then burn time and energy catching them, prosecuting time, and hoping for a conviction as a deterrent.

With any luck using your system crime will magically disappear on it’s own.

I am going to put my fingers in my ears now and make noises and ignore the worlds problems. It is certainly easier to not take responsibility. Good advice.