Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated' • Hacker News Board

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#51

Post by te_chris » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 11:33 AM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #24

lucidguppy wrote: post #3

1) Go watch the movie cowspiracy on netflix. Go vegan. 2) Get an energy audit and see if your home needs more insulation. If a solar panel installation will pay for itself in a reasonable time where you live (rebates - SRECs - etc) consider getting one. 3) If you live in a warmer climate with safe biking paths - get an electric bike to go to work. 4) The next car you get should be electric or plugin hybrid. Even if i…

I do that stuff but it's not going to save the world. To save the world we need: a substantial price on carbon, a faster path to developing advanced nuclear power (in addition to continuing renewables deployment), a major rollout of lab-grown meat as soon as it's affordable with decent quality, negative emissions methods both technological (direct air capture) and biological (kelp, reforesting), and maybe some kind o…

I don't understand why govt's aren't tasking their militaries with using their considerable resources to find solutions to climate change - they have, at minimun the following skills: science, tech, manpower, organisational ability.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#52

Post by Vinnl » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 11:33 AM UTC

lucidguppy wrote: post #3

1) Go watch the movie cowspiracy on netflix. Go vegan. 2) Get an energy audit and see if your home needs more insulation. If a solar panel installation will pay for itself in a reasonable time where you live (rebates - SRECs - etc) consider getting one. 3) If you live in a warmer climate with safe biking paths - get an electric bike to go to work. 4) The next car you get should be electric or plugin hybrid. Even if i…

I think there's a lot to be said for going vegan, but conspiracy literally is a conspiracy, and I'm usually not inclined to take conspiracies seriously.

But yes, things need to change. And yes, that requires changes by governments and corporations, but all of that is set in motion by regular people. Change your habits, even if they don't make a difference on their own - they show others that this is important, and will influence them to make their own changes. It will spread, not just to our regular behaviour, but also to our consumption and voting decisions. People are more likely to do as you do than to do as you say.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#53

Post by yostrovs » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 11:34 AM UTC

type-2 wrote: post #16

rocqua wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the climate impact of ethically raised meat tends to be a lot higher than that of mass-produced meat. The reason being that it simply takes more resources to ethically produce meat.

All meat is a incredibly wasteful way to grow food. Plus mass produced meat usually always is harmful to the animal's wellbeing and also due to the way they live in close cramped spaces, there is lot of antibiotic put into their feed to stop diseases. Being vegan is the best but sadly we love meat too much. I am myself no better

Nonsense. Grazing animals are part of the natural cycle that has produced grasses, the topsoil, and nutrients that tie them together. Vegetarianism breaks that cycle and leads to use of chemicals for growing edible plants.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#54

Post by johnchristopher » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 11:34 AM UTC

lucidguppy wrote: post #3

1) Go watch the movie cowspiracy on netflix. Go vegan. 2) Get an energy audit and see if your home needs more insulation. If a solar panel installation will pay for itself in a reasonable time where you live (rebates - SRECs - etc) consider getting one. 3) If you live in a warmer climate with safe biking paths - get an electric bike to go to work. 4) The next car you get should be electric or plugin hybrid. Even if i…

How should we got about people saying: "It's too late. It's now an open bar and I won't shoot myself in the foot by restricting my lifestyle or paying more than others for the same goods and services to soften the inevitable coming disaster. If this is the last ride and I have a seat I might as well enjoy it."

Eg: "Why buy a green car if it's going to cost me way more than a good old diesel and the apocalypse is coming the same anyway ?"

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#55

Post by Vinnl » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 11:35 AM UTC

cft wrote: post #10

Nuclear war can reverse global warming [1]. Some argue that since nuclear weapons exist, they will likely be used sooner or later. 1. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/02/110223-nucl...

Well... Reversing global warming isn't a goal in itself; it's the means to making/keeping the planet pleasantly habitable for us :P

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#56

Post by weavie » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 11:35 AM UTC

lucidguppy wrote: post #3

1) Go watch the movie cowspiracy on netflix. Go vegan. 2) Get an energy audit and see if your home needs more insulation. If a solar panel installation will pay for itself in a reasonable time where you live (rebates - SRECs - etc) consider getting one. 3) If you live in a warmer climate with safe biking paths - get an electric bike to go to work. 4) The next car you get should be electric or plugin hybrid. Even if i…

What I am finding in my road to eating less meat is that vegetarian food seems to take a lot longer to prepare. I can knock up a steak with mushrooms and brocolli in about 10 minutes.

I am finding to create something just as satisfying that's vegetarian is some form of pie or lasagne that is delicious but takes an entire evening to cook.

What would the vegetarian equivalent to a quick steak be?

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#57

Post by whatshisface » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 11:36 AM UTC

prolikewh0a wrote: post #19

ForHackernews wrote: post #6

Yet more bad news on the climate change front. Based on previous discussions on HN, I'm sure there will be plenty of people proposing ambitious and creative technological solutions. I fear that there's an anthropic bias[0] at work where humans are convinced we will solve this problem because we've always solved other problems before. But we forget that if we hadn't solved those previous issues, we wouldn't be here to…

The endless growth of runaway Capitalism with no plans to put a halt to is potentially our great filter. We'll need to send another Sagan vinyl up to warn about the dangers of Capitalism among societies. IPCC claims we need to expand beyond capitalism to solve this [1]. [1] https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/18/the-hope-at-the-heart-o...

It's not capitalism because authoritarian states aren't cutting emissions either. Capitalism gives the people with money what they want, autocracies give the people with power what they want, and so on, and not one single distribution of getting-what-they-want is going vegan and cutting emissions to zero. The only remaining conclusion is that nobody wants to go vegan and stop emissions.

If you want a government that does that, you would have to give all power to a small group of people like you. That would never happen because there are so many groups with other immense interests that if you are going to let one "win" and control everything the odds of you winning are almost nil. The only option is to somehow get more people to want to change everything.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#58

Post by johnchristopher » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 11:37 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #27

nhangen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate to break it to you, but there is no such thing as ethically farmed meat. If it’s killed for your plate, it’s still bad karma.

You don't acknowledge an ethical difference between a pig that has never seen the sun and lived on barely enough room to stand and a pig that has been held in a way that accommodated its natural behaviors?

I think the argument that eating the pig raised in dark factory is better than the pig that had a life is valid.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#59

Post by cowsandmilk » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 11:37 AM UTC

rocqua wrote: post #11

fredley wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you don't want to go vegan, it's easy to eat less meat (and probably good for your health if you have a Western diet). My partner is vegetarian, I eat meat occasionally (and when I do I eat good meat, ethically and sustainably farmed). Reducing meat consumption is by far the easiest way to reduce your carbon footprint.

I believe that the climate impact of ethically raised meat tends to be a lot higher than that of mass-produced meat. The reason being that it simply takes more resources to ethically produce meat.

Story is much more complicated than that.

It takes far more fertilizer and irrigation to produce food for mass-produced meat. Well-maintained pasture has diverse plants year round soaking up a small amount of CO2 versus land for corn that is plowed under. And land for ethical meat often has trees to shade the animals. Mass-produced meat requires highly intensive cleaning of stalls. And for things like beef, it is still unclear whether one diet or another produces more methane, which is a huge portion of the climate impact.

Then there are things like what is done with the manure. In a well-managed factory farm, it is digested. But there are tons of stories about polluted rivers near factory farms that make it clear that often isn't the case. Those polluted rivers result in algal blooms, which is a whole other matter.

Basically, a statement like "more resources to ethically produce meat" confuses the price to a farmer of producing meat with a calculation that incorporates all the externalities, which is a whole lot less clear.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#60

Post by mac01021 » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 11:37 AM UTC

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #9

ehnto wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can do our part locally, but individuals have no control over industry. We need to force the hand of government to paint the big strokes that we can't. I feel like social change is going to be the slowest, a government may tend to lag but they can do the most in the quickest amount of time with industry regulation.

That 'but' is an excuse. Government opinion will always lag the peoples opinion - its a reactive organisation. Making a change yourself and normalising it is a huge signal to those you come into contact with that they should do the same. Governments change when politicians realise they are growing out of touch with the people they are trying to coerce.

I've done all of the following at various points, and announced that it was for environment reasons:

- Gone vegetarian

- Bought a tiny used car instead on new one or one with more space.

- Moved to a neighborhood where I could walk to work.

- Declined for my employer to send me on an expenses paid trip to a conference 2000 miles away.

This has had ZERO effect on the behavior of any of the witnesses. And if I voice too much disapproval of people's ecologically destructive behavior, all that will happen is that I will be branded as some weirdo puritanical eco-prude, who's opinions and values are too fringe to be given any weight.