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Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#41

Post by conradk »

LukaD wrote: post #33
onion2k wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If every single person on Earth did 1 - 4 it still wouldn't be enough. Change has to come from industrial polluters to have a real impact, and the only way to change industry is to stop driving growth through consumption. So... 5) Stop buying stuff .

I think if every single person on Earth went vegan it would have a significant impact. It would force the meat industry to change.

Going vegan is essentially "Stop buying stuff" where "stuff" is meat. You should stop buying anything that pollutes a lot and/or has low value compared to alternatives: diesel cars, disposable plastic items, useless gadgets, etc.

If you still want meat in your diet, start buying less beef and more eggs or chicken. That'll be a good start. https://timeforchange.org/eat-less-meat-co2-emission-of-food

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#42

Post by kaddio »

lucidguppy wrote: post #3

1) Go watch the movie cowspiracy on netflix. Go vegan. 2) Get an energy audit and see if your home needs more insulation. If a solar panel installation will pay for itself in a reasonable time where you live (rebates - SRECs - etc) consider getting one. 3) If you live in a warmer climate with safe biking paths - get an electric bike to go to work. 4) The next car you get should be electric or plugin hybrid. Even if i…

>Governments always lag society - they never lead.

Eh? I have many examples that prove otherwise.

Like, government mandating solar panels on new buildings. People aren't happy with those because of how expensive they are. Or government mandating certain cars cannot go through cities certain days. People aren't happy because they'd rather use their SUVs. Or government mandating you have to pay for plastic bags and in the end they will be banned altogether. Which sucks and is inconvenient.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#43

Post by xyzzy123 »

nhangen wrote: post #30
adrianN wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't acknowledge an ethical difference between a pig that has never seen the sun and lived on barely enough room to stand and a pig that has been held in a way that accommodated its natural behaviors?

There is an ethical difference yes, but it’s still a net negative. We don’t need to kill in order to eat. We just choose to.

It gets ethically weird for me when I contemplate hypothetical pigs that had happy lives but would not have existed if they were not farmed. Kinda Logan’s run? But pigs.

The utilitarian in me wants to see the existence of the pig as an ethical net positive overall.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#44

Post by sonnyblarney »

LukaD wrote: post #33
onion2k wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If every single person on Earth did 1 - 4 it still wouldn't be enough. Change has to come from industrial polluters to have a real impact, and the only way to change industry is to stop driving growth through consumption. So... 5) Stop buying stuff .

I think if every single person on Earth went vegan it would have a significant impact. It would force the meat industry to change.

"I think if every single person on Earth went vegan it would have a significant impact."

It will never happen.

We need more practical solutions.

Only 10% of people in developed countries would even think of making major changes to their lifestyle for such reasons ...

And there are 5 billion people in poor countries who are rapidly becoming 'consumers' and they don't care, at all. They want cars, appliances and 'stuff' now.

There's hope but I think it'll have to be really quite pragmatic, and more focused on supply and less on demand, i.e, solar, wind, a lot more nuclear and I wish we'd invest more in Fusion research.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#45

Post by Vinnl »

DennisP wrote: post #24
lucidguppy wrote: post #3

1) Go watch the movie cowspiracy on netflix. Go vegan. 2) Get an energy audit and see if your home needs more insulation. If a solar panel installation will pay for itself in a reasonable time where you live (rebates - SRECs - etc) consider getting one. 3) If you live in a warmer climate with safe biking paths - get an electric bike to go to work. 4) The next car you get should be electric or plugin hybrid. Even if i…

I do that stuff but it's not going to save the world. To save the world we need: a substantial price on carbon, a faster path to developing advanced nuclear power (in addition to continuing renewables deployment), a major rollout of lab-grown meat as soon as it's affordable with decent quality, negative emissions methods both technological (direct air capture) and biological (kelp, reforesting), and maybe some kind o…

I think all of these things are set in motion by people making efforts like going vegetarian.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#46

Post by jeremyjh »

gambiting wrote: post #22
cft wrote: post #10

Nuclear war can reverse global warming [1]. Some argue that since nuclear weapons exist, they will likely be used sooner or later. 1. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/02/110223-nucl...

I thought it was almost decided recently(definitely later than 2011) that actually, nuclear war wouldn't cause global cooldown, or if it did it would be extremely temporary, definitely not on the scale of decades or centuries. Another interesting fact is that we have detonated nearly 2500 nukes since we first made them, and it had observably zero impact on climate, despite each one releasing gigantic amounts of energ…

Most of the purported cooling comes from the ashes of burning cities blanketing the atmosphere; so we would not expect any effect from tests.

Still I think the methodology of the studies that produced this theory have been widely discredited.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#47

Post by leonroy »

tuskan wrote: post #31
prolikewh0a wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The endless growth of runaway Capitalism with no plans to put a halt to is potentially our great filter. We'll need to send another Sagan vinyl up to warn about the dangers of Capitalism among societies. IPCC claims we need to expand beyond capitalism to solve this [1]. [1] https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/18/the-hope-at-the-heart-o...

China produces nearly twice the carbon dioxide emissions as the second largest carbon dioxide producer, USA. China is a communist state. https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/sc...

> China is a communist state.

Yet its market operates more like a capitalistic one.

It's also not entirely fair to point the finger wholly at China on CO2 output when Europe and the US have effectively outsourced their manufacturing and most polluting processes to companies over there.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#48

Post by prolikewh0a »

tuskan wrote: post #31
prolikewh0a wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The endless growth of runaway Capitalism with no plans to put a halt to is potentially our great filter. We'll need to send another Sagan vinyl up to warn about the dangers of Capitalism among societies. IPCC claims we need to expand beyond capitalism to solve this [1]. [1] https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/18/the-hope-at-the-heart-o...

China produces nearly twice the carbon dioxide emissions as the second largest carbon dioxide producer, USA. China is a communist state. https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/sc...

Do the workers own the means of production?

No, therefore China is not a communist state. It is one in name only. Its economy is extremely capitalistic.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#49

Post by humanrebar »

kaddio wrote: post #42
lucidguppy wrote: post #3

1) Go watch the movie cowspiracy on netflix. Go vegan. 2) Get an energy audit and see if your home needs more insulation. If a solar panel installation will pay for itself in a reasonable time where you live (rebates - SRECs - etc) consider getting one. 3) If you live in a warmer climate with safe biking paths - get an electric bike to go to work. 4) The next car you get should be electric or plugin hybrid. Even if i…

>Governments always lag society - they never lead. Eh? I have many examples that prove otherwise. Like, government mandating solar panels on new buildings. People aren't happy with those because of how expensive they are. Or government mandating certain cars cannot go through cities certain days. People aren't happy because they'd rather use their SUVs. Or government mandating you have to pay for plastic bags and in…

Yeah, we have to be careful that we aren't just promoting, "Let them eat solar panels" solutions if we want actual progress.

Re: Oceans 'soaking up more heat than estimated'

#50

Post by lexs »

tuskan wrote: post #31
prolikewh0a wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The endless growth of runaway Capitalism with no plans to put a halt to is potentially our great filter. We'll need to send another Sagan vinyl up to warn about the dangers of Capitalism among societies. IPCC claims we need to expand beyond capitalism to solve this [1]. [1] https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/18/the-hope-at-the-heart-o...

China produces nearly twice the carbon dioxide emissions as the second largest carbon dioxide producer, USA. China is a communist state. https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/sc...

how would that statistic look like if it attributed the carbon where the end product was consumed? At least China isn't calling global warming a hoax...
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