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Making the GPL more scary

lwn.net

31–40 of 151 posts

Re: Making the GPL more scary

#31
This has the potential to backfire spectacularly. If anyone is able to abide by this license and offer mongodb as a service, they will dramatically lower the barrier to entry for mongodb hosting.

Mongo is betting that their service is uncommodifiable.

Perhaps they want to get out of the hosting game altogether, make their money consulting. In that case they’d have made a very competitive hosting market to drive down prices and spur adoption.

Re: Making the GPL more scary

#32
post #29
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, that feels more like a hidden contract. Giving away for free a software only to require the user to do the same. That's why I prefer BSD-style licenses - when they write "free", they mean "free".

And that is why BSDs will never be as big as Linux, companies don't like to give free beer back to the tap. Also why all new open source OSes done companies are all based on BSD/MIT licenses like Zephyr, RTOS, Fuchsia, ... When we get back to PD, Shareware world, don't start complaining companies don't contribute back.

That's kind of the point though. BSD is truly free, and that means there are a lot of proprietary products which benefit massively from it and create worthwhile products with clear monetization strategies and thrive. Sure, they might not contribute back, but the point of the open source was often to share code to improve the state of the art and provide useful code for people so they don't have to start from scratch. Apple took BSD licensed code to make macOS, and it helped them, they contribute some OS code to Darwin, but there are probably lots of happy mac users who benefit immensely from that BSD code. There are lots of people who do BSD code and improve it, just as there are GPL people. Popularity is not always [i.e. almost never] a measure of correctness, principle, or goodness. I like BSD, because any code I release, I hope it helps someone somewhere to do something useful for the world [even when proprietary], and if it does, then great.

Re: Making the GPL more scary

#33
post #16

I'm probably going to get a lot of flak for this, but here's an opinion supporting the MongoDB license. Two things: 1. MongoDB has the right to do whatever they like ------------------------------------------------------ The creator of a product: 1. Has a rational interest in maximizing their returns 2. Owns all the rights to their products (barring existing IP restrictions) And if they choose to open source their co…

To me, that feels more like a hidden contract. Giving away for free a software only to require the user to do the same. That's why I prefer BSD-style licenses - when they write "free", they mean "free".

Just to be clear with regards to BSD vs the GPL - the GPL "free" does not refer to cost.

Re: Making the GPL more scary

#34

This has the potential to backfire spectacularly. If anyone is able to abide by this license and offer mongodb as a service, they will dramatically lower the barrier to entry for mongodb hosting. Mongo is betting that their service is uncommodifiable. Perhaps they want to get out of the hosting game altogether, make their money consulting. In that case they’d have made a very competitive hosting market to drive down…

it can't backfire too bad, if it does they'll change the license again.

Re: Making the GPL more scary

#35

This has the potential to backfire spectacularly. If anyone is able to abide by this license and offer mongodb as a service, they will dramatically lower the barrier to entry for mongodb hosting. Mongo is betting that their service is uncommodifiable. Perhaps they want to get out of the hosting game altogether, make their money consulting. In that case they’d have made a very competitive hosting market to drive down…

it can't backfire too bad, if it does they'll change the license again.

I think if they change the license back, the damage would already have been done. Competitors would have access to a competitive mongodb service stack.

Re: Making the GPL more scary

#36
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is why BSDs will never be as big as Linux, companies don't like to give free beer back to the tap. Also why all new open source OSes done companies are all based on BSD/MIT licenses like Zephyr, RTOS, Fuchsia, ... When we get back to PD, Shareware world, don't start complaining companies don't contribute back.

That's kind of the point though. BSD is truly free, and that means there are a lot of proprietary products which benefit massively from it and create worthwhile products with clear monetization strategies and thrive. Sure, they might not contribute back, but the point of the open source was often to share code to improve the state of the art and provide useful code for people so they don't have to start from scratch.…

Apple isn't the best example. They generally do publish the modified source code to FOSS projects they do, and sometimes they don't add their own license clause, so the changes can get merged back.

Re: Making the GPL more scary

#37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is why BSDs will never be as big as Linux, companies don't like to give free beer back to the tap. Also why all new open source OSes done companies are all based on BSD/MIT licenses like Zephyr, RTOS, Fuchsia, ... When we get back to PD, Shareware world, don't start complaining companies don't contribute back.

That's kind of the point though. BSD is truly free, and that means there are a lot of proprietary products which benefit massively from it and create worthwhile products with clear monetization strategies and thrive. Sure, they might not contribute back, but the point of the open source was often to share code to improve the state of the art and provide useful code for people so they don't have to start from scratch.…

"Truly free" is in the eye of the beholder: is a country with laws against slavery more or less free than one without them?

I release my code as open-source because I don't want my end users to ever end up unable to fix bugs in the code they're using. I don't want my code used in something like macOS where users are stuck using what they're given; it might help those users in the short term, but I believe it leaves them worse off in the long term.

Re: Making the GPL more scary

#38
post #6
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is only about cases where you expose MongoDB directly, not if you use it in the backend.

I believe that is what prompted the Server Side Public License (SSPL) creation, but as written could be interpreted to cover more than just offering MongoDB as a service. From the SSPL: 13. Offering the Program as a Service. If you make the functionality of the Program or a modified version available to third parties as a service, you must make the Service Source Code available via network download to everyone at no…

So the key takeway is that you not only have to opensource your serverside component, but also have to allow self hosting? I haven't had my morning coffee yet so I may be wrong here, but that seems extreme.

Re: Making the GPL more scary

#39
post #3

I would like to make it explicit that only flesh and blood individuals should have access to freedom 0. These licenses are a step in a direction closer to what I would like to see, but aren't quite there yet. If you as a person want to run software xyz and try to make money off of it, go ahead. As soon as you open a limited company to reduce your exposure you should be hit with paying license fees. I don't get the ha…

The reason we use open source is for the freedom of it, we can use a library of a permissive license, redistribute and reuse the code elsewhere in the organization without worry. Without contacting the vendor.

We’re not shooting future us in the foot.

It’s far more about function and redistribution than ROI. It’s about peace of mind. It’s about not having to worry about a vendor revoking a license down the road.

I think you are entirely missing the point and values of “Free Software” vs open source.

Re: Making the GPL more scary

#40
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is why BSDs will never be as big as Linux, companies don't like to give free beer back to the tap. Also why all new open source OSes done companies are all based on BSD/MIT licenses like Zephyr, RTOS, Fuchsia, ... When we get back to PD, Shareware world, don't start complaining companies don't contribute back.

That's kind of the point though. BSD is truly free, and that means there are a lot of proprietary products which benefit massively from it and create worthwhile products with clear monetization strategies and thrive. Sure, they might not contribute back, but the point of the open source was often to share code to improve the state of the art and provide useful code for people so they don't have to start from scratch.…

Yes, this is the sense of "truly free" that leads to people in the U.S. being able to marry children, not having healthcare taken care of etc. That's a true 'freedom' to go bankrupt, but am not sure that's a 'freedom' many actually want.
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