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Satellite images expose China's network of secret re-education camps in Xinjiang

abc.net.au

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Re: Satellite images expose China's network of secret re-education camps in Xinjiang

#11

Post by sho »

It's hard to defend China here but it's also hard to see how they are supposed to handle the Uyghur question, and articles like this certainly don't give useful suggestions. What do you do with a region full of separatist agitators who frequently resort to violence and refuse to even teach their children Mandarin? Leave them to it and tolerate the bombings? Allow them to secede?

There's a long history here and after decades of failure, China is beginning to turn the screws, in typical heavy handed style. But I'd genuinely like to know what people think the alternative is with a near-rebel province.

One quote from the article which I think sums things up:

> “I cannot bear keeping silent [any more] because I think there’s a genocide taking place in East Turkestan,” he said, using the name many Uighurs use to refer to their homeland.

This chap has unwittingly hit the nail on the head. China cannot, and will not, allow the separatist movement in the Xinjiang region to proceed further.

Re: Satellite images expose China's network of secret re-education camps in Xinjiang

#12

Post by deugtniet »

sho wrote: post #11

It's hard to defend China here but it's also hard to see how they are supposed to handle the Uyghur question, and articles like this certainly don't give useful suggestions. What do you do with a region full of separatist agitators who frequently resort to violence and refuse to even teach their children Mandarin? Leave them to it and tolerate the bombings? Allow them to secede? There's a long history here and after…

[flagged]

Re: Satellite images expose China's network of secret re-education camps in Xinjiang

#13

Post by devoply »

sho wrote: post #11

It's hard to defend China here but it's also hard to see how they are supposed to handle the Uyghur question, and articles like this certainly don't give useful suggestions. What do you do with a region full of separatist agitators who frequently resort to violence and refuse to even teach their children Mandarin? Leave them to it and tolerate the bombings? Allow them to secede? There's a long history here and after…

The Uighur want nothing to do with the Chinese. Historically the only reason they wanted to be a part of China was because other Central Asians were oppressing them and the Chinese gave them a better deal. China's real claim to this province is simply about resource extraction... and maybe sovereignty. What's the solution, leave them alone to do as they wish. It should be its own country without Han Chinese invading all parts of it.

That being said, the reality is that the Uighur are generally screwed just like the Tibetans were/are screwed. Empire does not compromise.

Re: Satellite images expose China's network of secret re-education camps in Xinjiang

#14

Post by Krasnol »

sho wrote: post #11

It's hard to defend China here but it's also hard to see how they are supposed to handle the Uyghur question, and articles like this certainly don't give useful suggestions. What do you do with a region full of separatist agitators who frequently resort to violence and refuse to even teach their children Mandarin? Leave them to it and tolerate the bombings? Allow them to secede? There's a long history here and after…

Partial independence. Let them govern themselves. The dependency of the rest of China would have led to an automatic alignment...at some point in the past.

But we're talking about China so this is not even imaginable. They'll try to put pressure until they break further, justifying even more pressure and so on.

As far as I've heard they even have a special version of that credit system so there isn't even a viable escape route for those who want to align themselves to the rest of China.

Re: Satellite images expose China's network of secret re-education camps in Xinjiang

#15

Post by Cthulhu_ »

sho wrote: post #11

It's hard to defend China here but it's also hard to see how they are supposed to handle the Uyghur question, and articles like this certainly don't give useful suggestions. What do you do with a region full of separatist agitators who frequently resort to violence and refuse to even teach their children Mandarin? Leave them to it and tolerate the bombings? Allow them to secede? There's a long history here and after…

> Allow them to secede?

Is that a serious question? If a people no longer wants to be part of a country they should be allowed to secede. The Scottish tried it via a democratic route - which would have succeeded with a wide margin post-Brexit. Actually, the British voted to secede from the EU. The Catalans want to secede from Spain.

But that's besides the point - you're almost implying that it's OK to put people in concentration camps.

Re: Satellite images expose China's network of secret re-education camps in Xinjiang

#16

Post by Cthulhu_ »

singularity2001 wrote: post #8
echevil wrote: post #6

It’s not secret anymore. The government has explained what they are. And so called re-education camps are not uncommon in other parts of China at all

In 1944 they were called 'work camps'. re-education does sound a bit more friendly so there is progress in propaganda.

And ATM in the US they're called detention camps for enemy combatants.

Re: Satellite images expose China's network of secret re-education camps in Xinjiang

#17

Post by sho »

deugtniet wrote: post #12
sho wrote: post #11

It's hard to defend China here but it's also hard to see how they are supposed to handle the Uyghur question, and articles like this certainly don't give useful suggestions. What do you do with a region full of separatist agitators who frequently resort to violence and refuse to even teach their children Mandarin? Leave them to it and tolerate the bombings? Allow them to secede? There's a long history here and after…

[flagged]

Firstly, it's not "genocide" at all - that's typical hyperbole from a very politically motivated party. His next quote reveals his definition of genocide:

> “They want to erase, erase, erase your identity and our culture and to melt them into Han Chinese.”

That's quite different, and also accurate. They want them to learn Chinese and acknowledge they live in China. Of course.

Interesting that you suggested the Yugoslavian "solution" which required a bloody war, in case you'd forgotten, between ethnic populations of roughly equal sizes and mass displacements. This "solution" could only ever have one outcome if you're seriously suggesting China should simply fight for its land and displace the rebels. That "war" would last roughly until tea time.

Re: Satellite images expose China's network of secret re-education camps in Xinjiang

#18

Post by cirgue »

sho wrote: post #17
deugtniet wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Firstly, it's not "genocide" at all - that's typical hyperbole from a very politically motivated party. His next quote reveals his definition of genocide: > “They want to erase, erase, erase your identity and our culture and to melt them into Han Chinese.” That's quite different, and also accurate. They want them to learn Chinese and acknowledge they live in China. Of course. Interesting that you suggested the Yugosl…

Genocide is the systematic dismantling of an ethnic identity. It doesn’t definitionally include killing.

Re: Satellite images expose China's network of secret re-education camps in Xinjiang

#19

Post by isostatic »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #7

A previous report on this outrage https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_cam...

You can’t read that in China. DNS is intercepted and overwitten - *.bbc.co.uk is directed to a random IP address that is typically in an AS that should be somewhere in the US, at one point it was a netblock owned by facebook, although with a 20ms response in Beijing.

Same applies to many other sites. To westerners, the Internet is effectively unusable until you establish a vpn.

HN works though.

Re: Satellite images expose China's network of secret re-education camps in Xinjiang

#20

Post by dalbasal »

sho wrote: post #17
deugtniet wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Firstly, it's not "genocide" at all - that's typical hyperbole from a very politically motivated party. His next quote reveals his definition of genocide: > “They want to erase, erase, erase your identity and our culture and to melt them into Han Chinese.” That's quite different, and also accurate. They want them to learn Chinese and acknowledge they live in China. Of course. Interesting that you suggested the Yugosl…

Let's not argue about the words themselves. This is pointless.

We know what's happening roughly, and it's a terrible thing regardless if what you call it.

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