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Hundreds at Google Plan Walkout to Protest Handling of Sexual Harassment

nytimes.com

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Re: Hundreds at Google Plan Walkout to Protest Handling of Sexual Harassment

#31

Post by choot »

manicdee wrote: post #28
choot wrote: post #17

One of my friend working for a big tech once told me, if you go back in time, you'll see powerful men had many women. Why do you think at Google it will be any different? Being one of the most powerful organizations, it attracts power hungry people. Not only those who want money and fame, but those who want others to submit to them and make others do whatever they want. Cleary such people see sexual harassment in sim…

You’ll need to back this up with numbers. Not anecdotal evidence from a therapist whose clients are likely to be people who have made questionable choices which is why they are seeing a therapist in the first place … I know plenty of successful women who didn’t sleep their way to the top, and plenty of successful men who didn’t either.

> You’ll need to back this up with numbers.

I agree, this space needs to be opened up for more research.

>I know plenty of successful women who didn’t sleep their way to the top, and plenty of successful men who didn’t either.

Do you think people can lie to not playdown their success? Or to make you believe they deserve it.

It might be selection bias but i agree we need real numbers here.

But opening up a discussion is better to find measures to crack down on sexual harassment.

Re: Hundreds at Google Plan Walkout to Protest Handling of Sexual Harassment

#32

Post by choot »

bonyen wrote: post #29

Time to bust out the popcorn! James Damore was fired because his memo created a “hostile work environment”, but organizing a walkout with 1500 employees has the support of Pichai, the CEO? And these same employees want blood from Brin and Schmidt, who are essentially among Pichai’s bosses? Things could get very ugly, very quickly. The inmates are running the asylum.

It seems you got downvoted. But there is heavy sensoring attempt behind these. IDK why, people are not willing to talk?

Re: Hundreds at Google Plan Walkout to Protest Handling of Sexual Harassment

#33

Post by gretch »

sp332 wrote: post #10
gretch wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably don't like it but also believe that the walk out doesn't _do_ anything. To clarify even further, there's been a lot internal messaging internally from execs condemning sexual harassment and assault since the news cycle. If one believes this messaging, then walking out adds almost nothing more to the situation. If you think the execs are lying to you at all, but especially on this topic, you probably alr…

No way, these employees don't get paid by the hour and they aren't going to pull from their PTO to protest. Having a bunch of employees standing around being unproductive hits them right in the wallet. Management is going to listen to this above almost any other signal.

> Having a bunch of employees standing around being unproductive hits them right in the wallet

But this is already true, whether there is a walk out or not.

Even if they are sitting at their desks, if the employees are all frustrated and have other matters on their mind, are they producing good work? I would say no

Execs see the battle has already been lost, because it has been. The company morale has been hit, doesn't matter if walking or sitting at your desk or whatever.

Re: Hundreds at Google Plan Walkout to Protest Handling of Sexual Harassment

#34

Post by tuesdayrain »

choot wrote: post #22
itronitron wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is accurate to say that half of women would make that choice. The damaging point of these behaviors is that people begin to assume this is normal when it is not. That is the real tragedy for Google.

I am pyscologist, I've consulted enough clients before reaching this conclusion. If you go asking women, if they'll sleep with you for promotion. Answer will be a big NO. Consider asking them who already faced this in real life, what did they choose? I want companies to tackle these dynamics, so we've a much safer and fair playground for everyone.

It's very easy for people to say "no of course I would never do that" to a morally ambiguous situation when they're just discussing hypotheticals. When it comes to real life, and the other person is making a serious offer, and there's a good chance no one else will find out...I would expect the answers to be significantly different.

Re: Hundreds at Google Plan Walkout to Protest Handling of Sexual Harassment

#35

Post by thrower123 »

sp332 wrote: post #10
gretch wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably don't like it but also believe that the walk out doesn't _do_ anything. To clarify even further, there's been a lot internal messaging internally from execs condemning sexual harassment and assault since the news cycle. If one believes this messaging, then walking out adds almost nothing more to the situation. If you think the execs are lying to you at all, but especially on this topic, you probably alr…

No way, these employees don't get paid by the hour and they aren't going to pull from their PTO to protest. Having a bunch of employees standing around being unproductive hits them right in the wallet. Management is going to listen to this above almost any other signal.

How much does a couple of hours of people standing in the parking lot waving signs really cost them? It's not like Google is a manufacturer where the assembly line comes to a stop if nobody is on the line; everything should be automated so that a handful of people can keep the servers humming along in the data centers. Maybe a few status meetings of dubious worth don't happen, or a little less email gets shuffled around.

Most people aren't actually doing anything that really affects the bottom line in a typical software company. Maybe if a few people performed acts of sabotage as a statement, that would make a dent, but that would effectively be suicidal.

Re: Hundreds at Google Plan Walkout to Protest Handling of Sexual Harassment

#36

Post by flukus »

> There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part! You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels…upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!

The record of peaceful protest without something more meaningful like violence, the threat of violence or serious monetary cost (stopping the machine) is not a good one.

Re: Hundreds at Google Plan Walkout to Protest Handling of Sexual Harassment

#37

Post by PurpleRamen »

choot wrote: post #32
bonyen wrote: post #29

Time to bust out the popcorn! James Damore was fired because his memo created a “hostile work environment”, but organizing a walkout with 1500 employees has the support of Pichai, the CEO? And these same employees want blood from Brin and Schmidt, who are essentially among Pichai’s bosses? Things could get very ugly, very quickly. The inmates are running the asylum.

It seems you got downvoted. But there is heavy sensoring attempt behind these. IDK why, people are not willing to talk?

Many people today seems to not talk anymore, they just fight for whatever agenda they have. My impression is many do it because they fear it will not end well. In the "best" case they just wasted their time on some meaningless talk, in worst case, someone tricks them into abandoning their important agenda, while in the other worst case they must admit they were wrong the whole time.

In my country there was a political movement some years ago which did this for a longer time, bringing those arguments for not talking with the press or other people. Since then I observed similar reactions with other crowds too. I think today, people have become so talkative about anything, that we see now a movement back into the opposite direction. At the end, not talking is simpler, faster. A downvote takes a second, talking it out can go on for minutes, hours, days and days..

Re: Hundreds at Google Plan Walkout to Protest Handling of Sexual Harassment

#38

Post by ingenieros »

choot wrote: post #22
itronitron wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is accurate to say that half of women would make that choice. The damaging point of these behaviors is that people begin to assume this is normal when it is not. That is the real tragedy for Google.

I am pyscologist, I've consulted enough clients before reaching this conclusion. If you go asking women, if they'll sleep with you for promotion. Answer will be a big NO. Consider asking them who already faced this in real life, what did they choose? I want companies to tackle these dynamics, so we've a much safer and fair playground for everyone.

Isn't confidentiality a key part of your code of ethics? Why are you posting your clients guarded secrets on a public forum?

Re: Hundreds at Google Plan Walkout to Protest Handling of Sexual Harassment

#39

Post by gcc1993 »

sp332 wrote: post #21
gcc1993 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that my whole management chain is going to the protests and have said they are for it (and they also have been changing sexual harassment policies the last few years anyway). The protest has lost a lot of value because the people we ostensibly protest against are already there agreeing with us.

That's only true if you were protesting against people and not bad behavior. Getting management to be visibly on your side should give your demands a lot more power.

Yeah but the main complaint (i.e. the large exit package) was already changed a few years before this. To be clear I'm walking out for the protest but I don't really see this as a big fight against management, if I think that my managers are lying to me at every level and they don't take sexual assault them I should just leave the company. The thing is that while I don't agree with a lot of what they say they've generally been sincere with me in the past.

Re: Hundreds at Google Plan Walkout to Protest Handling of Sexual Harassment

#40

Post by User23 »

PurpleRamen wrote: post #37
choot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you got downvoted. But there is heavy sensoring attempt behind these. IDK why, people are not willing to talk?

Many people today seems to not talk anymore, they just fight for whatever agenda they have. My impression is many do it because they fear it will not end well. In the "best" case they just wasted their time on some meaningless talk, in worst case, someone tricks them into abandoning their important agenda, while in the other worst case they must admit they were wrong the whole time. In my country there was a politica…

Talking is only an option when both sides agree to it. Since that's observably not the case here, talking isn't an option.
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