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Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

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Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#121

Post by _emacsomancer_ »

RandomInteger4 wrote: post #97
robin_reala wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The puzzles aren’t simple if you’re blind or hard of vision. Or don’t have a US cultural background (I personally know a sidewalk is US English for a pavement, but I definitely don’t recognise all US street signs or shop hoardings, and have been caught out by that before).

You realize that when you're doing these CAPTCHAs, you're on the internet right? You could ask Google or DDG, "What is an XYZ?" and they would happily provide examples. Honestly, you're kind of insulting the intelligence of most people without a US cultural background.

Except when Google blocks you from using the search engine until you've answered the CAPTCHA....

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#122

Post by TimothyBJacobs »

robin_reala wrote: post #45
wild_preference wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ReCaptcha, of all things, has pretty good accessibility measures. Likely more than the site in which it's embedded. Nobody is claiming it's perfect. But notice how nobody here is analyzing why people use ReCaptcha in the first place nor providing alternatives. If you knew nothing of ReCaptcha and only read these comments, you'd wonder if it was a gag website operators put on their website for self-amusement, which is…

No. They say they do, but neither me not any of the team that tried it was able to complete a single test of the ReCAPTCHA accessible fallbacks. 0%. This was a couple of years ago, but at that point at least putting ReCAPTCHA into a site was putting a fixed roadblock in for people with visual impairments strong enough to force them down their audio route.

When is the last time you tried? I completed the accessible fallback first try. Were you using headphones?

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#123

Post by ardy42 »

Izkata wrote: post #116
robin_reala wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The puzzles aren’t simple if you’re blind or hard of vision. Or don’t have a US cultural background (I personally know a sidewalk is US English for a pavement, but I definitely don’t recognise all US street signs or shop hoardings, and have been caught out by that before).

> The puzzles aren’t simple if you’re blind or hard of vision. Or don’t have a US cultural background I've lived my whole life in the US and have about 20/20 vision (used to be slightly better than 20/15), and I'd estimate my reCaptcha pass rate around 20%. The puzzles are just badly done, it's not even a vision or knowledge thing.

> The puzzles are just badly done, it's not even a vision or knowledge thing.

Yeah. The puzzles are terrible now, and I have a strong suspicion that they're no longer testing to see if you behave like another human, but instead testing you to see if you act like their own machine vision bot.

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#124

Post by will123195 »

exodust wrote: post #120
wild_preference wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to lose users or time/money with any abuse prevention. But you lose even more by letting things like spammers run rampant on your platform. You're stuck analyzing trade-offs, not ignoring reality. Once again, all trails lead back to you providing some alternative solutions instead of the empty catharsis of coming up with downsides to something in an internet comment. Here's one of my own: Isn't it annoyi…

You sound irritated that people find Recaptcha irritating. It's not about disliking anti-spam measures, it's about highlighting the woeful method that is re-captcha. "Select all squares with street signs" shows a bunch of squares, some of them contain only part of the pole that presumably has a sign attached out of shot. So do you click that square that only has the pole? A pole is not a sign, it's a piece of steel.…

> A pole is not a sign

Guess we can close the file on that one.

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#125

Post by sieabah »

tinus_hn wrote: post #101
spookthesunset wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can rate limit login attempts, exponentially increasing rate limit (or just locking out) IPs that exceed allowed login attempts and analyze your logs to ban abusive IPs. Rate limiting and bot blocking are two totally different things. Rate limiting only increases the cost of a bot attack. Either they need more IP's (which are dirt cheap in the black market) or they need more time--either way it is increased cos…

> Bypassing an IP block is trivially easy for even a low-sophistication attacker. Not easy for an average user though.

You're not trying to block the average user, you're trying to block the people trying to abuse the system.

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#126

Post by astura »

nurino wrote: post #117
robin_reala wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The puzzles aren’t simple if you’re blind or hard of vision. Or don’t have a US cultural background (I personally know a sidewalk is US English for a pavement, but I definitely don’t recognise all US street signs or shop hoardings, and have been caught out by that before).

This reminds me of the day I was told to select all taxis... took me some time to understand they meant "yellow cars" (taxis are white here)

Ummm... Huh?

Taxis are a different color everywhere, there's no "standard," even NYC has green taxis ("Boro Taxis"). Yellow is a popular color, because it stands out, but I've taken taxis every color of the rainbow (well, maybe not pink or purple), each area or company is different.

In my neighborhood two companies operate taxis, one has a fleet of red taxis and another has a fleet of blue taxis. From my observation, black is probably the second most common taxi color.

You identify a taxi by it's markings, not it's color.

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#127

Post by erulabs »

avip wrote: post #84
jocoda wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had to do a double take here. Not sure that this, as a blanket statement can be correct. How can anyone not be entitled to connect to any public IP address? And how, and who, would be able to enforce that? A server can put various measures in place to limit general access, but then by those measures the IP is no longer public. T&Cs that a site may wish to enforce can only be made available after the connection has al…

The IP is public in the sense that a pub's door is public. You're welcome to open it. The bouncer may throw you out without explanations (maybe you wore a hoodie, idk). You walk in under terms. You don't have some birthright to lurk there and harass the customers.

Exactly, though in the case of TCP/IP you can just -lock- the door entirely for certain (people|addresses) - no need for violence!

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#128

Post by beojan »

pdkl95 wrote: post #81

Recaptcha v3 explicitly bans any browser that isn't one of "the two most recent major versions"[1] of Chrome, Firefox, Safari, or Edge. I don't mean it falls back to showing you an annoying select-the-picture quiz; if Google doesn't like your browser, the recaptcha widget replaces itself with: > Please upgrade to a supported browser to get a reCAPTCHA challenge. There are many reasons this is bad, but for now I'll po…

It's even worse on Android. The only supported browsers are Chrome and the native Android browser.

I wouldn't be surprised if they get another fine from the EU over this.

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#129

Post by beojan »

astura wrote: post #126
nurino wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the day I was told to select all taxis... took me some time to understand they meant "yellow cars" (taxis are white here)

Ummm... Huh? Taxis are a different color everywhere, there's no "standard," even NYC has green taxis ("Boro Taxis"). Yellow is a popular color, because it stands out, but I've taken taxis every color of the rainbow (well, maybe not pink or purple), each area or company is different. In my neighborhood two companies operate taxis, one has a fleet of red taxis and another has a fleet of blue taxis. From my observation,…

I wouldn't be surprised if users have inadvertently trained the AI behind reCAPTCHA to think all taxis are yellow.

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#130

Post by fulafel »

beojan wrote: post #128
pdkl95 wrote: post #81

Recaptcha v3 explicitly bans any browser that isn't one of "the two most recent major versions"[1] of Chrome, Firefox, Safari, or Edge. I don't mean it falls back to showing you an annoying select-the-picture quiz; if Google doesn't like your browser, the recaptcha widget replaces itself with: > Please upgrade to a supported browser to get a reCAPTCHA challenge. There are many reasons this is bad, but for now I'll po…

It's even worse on Android. The only supported browsers are Chrome and the native Android browser. I wouldn't be surprised if they get another fine from the EU over this.

Really? They banned Firefox and Opera?
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