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Help Wanted: America’s love affair with amateur advice

weeklystandard.com

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Re: Help Wanted: America’s love affair with amateur advice

#2
Q: What qualifies this group for the position of beacon to the masses?

A: Not a blessed thing.

If you pay a psychiatrist, you have to worry that they have a conflict of interest. If you really get well, you won't need them anymore. They have an inherent motive to help you only enough to take credit for things going better, not enough to set you free from needing their services.

If you turn to family, coworkers, or friends, the odds are very high that you will face similar conflicts of interest. Family inheritance. Family allies (the "favorite" child/sibling/cousin). Etc.

It's really hard to find someone to talk to whose personal biases are less problematic than those entrenched ties. A stranger or advice columnist may not give good advice, but they are somewhat less likely to give advice designed to encourage you to cut your own throat for their personal benefit.

People like me who like actually being useful and hate that kind of crap are sometimes drawn to giving advice for free in online forums. I read this because the title made me think it would be about that trend. There are endless places on the internet where you can anonymously ask for advice without admitting to your boss that you don't actually know how to do X or admitting to your spouse that you are thinking of leaving, etc. I think a similar article about that in specific would likely be far more interesting.

Re: Help Wanted: America’s love affair with amateur advice

#3
> Sure enough, Savage Love and its equivalents at every conceivable type of publication are considered “undignified reading material” carrying “a whiff of shame,” writes Jessica Weisberg

An ironic (and unsubstantiated) claim from amateur anthropologist Jessica Weisberg.

Re: Help Wanted: America’s love affair with amateur advice

#4

Q: What qualifies this group for the position of beacon to the masses? A: Not a blessed thing. If you pay a psychiatrist, you have to worry that they have a conflict of interest. If you really get well, you won't need them anymore. They have an inherent motive to help you only enough to take credit for things going better, not enough to set you free from needing their services. If you turn to family, coworkers, or fr…

That line of thinking is so alien to me. Does it apply to any time you go looking for goods or services? Do you go online for advice in complying with tax codes because your accountant wants you to get audited and need their services, do you make all your own food because the restaurant chefs want you to leave hungry so you have to order another serving, do you avoid the doctor since if you get better you won't come back into the office?

I think this just speaks the the modern trend of anti-intellectualism. Distrust of an expert because of phantom biases and the regression toward getting advice from your "tribe".

Re: Help Wanted: America’s love affair with amateur advice

#5
post #3

> Sure enough, Savage Love and its equivalents at every conceivable type of publication are considered “undignified reading material” carrying “a whiff of shame,” writes Jessica Weisberg An ironic (and unsubstantiated) claim from amateur anthropologist Jessica Weisberg.

Have you read the book?

Re: Help Wanted: America’s love affair with amateur advice

#6

Q: What qualifies this group for the position of beacon to the masses? A: Not a blessed thing. If you pay a psychiatrist, you have to worry that they have a conflict of interest. If you really get well, you won't need them anymore. They have an inherent motive to help you only enough to take credit for things going better, not enough to set you free from needing their services. If you turn to family, coworkers, or fr…

That line of thinking is so alien to me. Does it apply to any time you go looking for goods or services? Do you go online for advice in complying with tax codes because your accountant wants you to get audited and need their services, do you make all your own food because the restaurant chefs want you to leave hungry so you have to order another serving, do you avoid the doctor since if you get better you won't come…

If an accountant screws up, you're not likely to hire the same accountant again.

You might come back to a restaurant if you enjoyed your experience. The incentive is to give you as good a meal as possible. If you're hungry, you won't come back.

Doctors have a more concrete job to do. There's plenty of malpractice in the medical industry, by the way.

Psychiatry? It's much less concrete what a patient's needs are than other forms of business. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to bring up a potential conflict of interest there.

Equating things at random which don't make logical sense doesn't invalidate the point someone is trying to make.

Re: Help Wanted: America’s love affair with amateur advice

#7

Q: What qualifies this group for the position of beacon to the masses? A: Not a blessed thing. If you pay a psychiatrist, you have to worry that they have a conflict of interest. If you really get well, you won't need them anymore. They have an inherent motive to help you only enough to take credit for things going better, not enough to set you free from needing their services. If you turn to family, coworkers, or fr…

That line of thinking is so alien to me. Does it apply to any time you go looking for goods or services? Do you go online for advice in complying with tax codes because your accountant wants you to get audited and need their services, do you make all your own food because the restaurant chefs want you to leave hungry so you have to order another serving, do you avoid the doctor since if you get better you won't come…

Does it apply to any time you go looking for goods or services?

No, of course not. I eat at restaurants all the time. People will be hungry again shortly, even if fed wonderfully well. There are other things to worry about more, like if they are meeting food safety codes, which some don't.

I did therapy with a military chaplain. I had a really positive experience there. He wasn't being paid by me to deal with me. He was on salary. If I got better, that had no bearing on how much he made.

Some of the best hospitals in the US put their doctors on salary a long time ago. How many tests they order has no bearing on their income the way it can for a lot of private practice.

I have serious health issues and have gotten healthier via alternative approaches. I've thought a lot about what's wrong with modern medicine and I do think the way it gets paid for in the US is part of the problem. That doesn't mean I would never go to a doctor.

I've had lots of medical care and I would have died without it a long time ago, but I also was told at some point "People like you don't get well." When I didn't like that answer, I was scheduled fewer appointments and the rest of the world has since decided to malign me as a nutcase who "refuses" to see a doctor, which isn't the case.

I'm not an anti-intellectual by any stretch of the imagination. Nor do I think you should never seek expert advice. I'm just saying that advice free from conflict of interest is actually very valuable and one of the things offered by things like advice columns.

Example scenario:

If you are crying on the shoulder of some woman friend about your marital problems, you ultimately get divorced and end up with her, you have to wonder if she was really giving you advice designed to enhance your life or designed to enhance hers. You have to wonder if you can really trust her. It's a situation where she probably should have recused herself and told you "I'm not the person to get advice from on this matter. Sorry." But that's often not how it goes.

Re: Help Wanted: America’s love affair with amateur advice

#8

Q: What qualifies this group for the position of beacon to the masses? A: Not a blessed thing. If you pay a psychiatrist, you have to worry that they have a conflict of interest. If you really get well, you won't need them anymore. They have an inherent motive to help you only enough to take credit for things going better, not enough to set you free from needing their services. If you turn to family, coworkers, or fr…

I think you are overly worried that a psychiatrist would have a conflict of interest. A psychiatrist is an MD, they practice psychopharmacology. Even a psychologist would have no reason to keep you untreated. There are plenty of patients who need help and a shortage of mental health professionals in general.

Re: Help Wanted: America’s love affair with amateur advice

#9
post #8

Q: What qualifies this group for the position of beacon to the masses? A: Not a blessed thing. If you pay a psychiatrist, you have to worry that they have a conflict of interest. If you really get well, you won't need them anymore. They have an inherent motive to help you only enough to take credit for things going better, not enough to set you free from needing their services. If you turn to family, coworkers, or fr…

I think you are overly worried that a psychiatrist would have a conflict of interest. A psychiatrist is an MD, they practice psychopharmacology. Even a psychologist would have no reason to keep you untreated. There are plenty of patients who need help and a shortage of mental health professionals in general.

They don't have a great track of curing people. They tend to help people "manage" their mental health issues.

Color me unimpressed.

Re: Help Wanted: America’s love affair with amateur advice

#10

Q: What qualifies this group for the position of beacon to the masses? A: Not a blessed thing. If you pay a psychiatrist, you have to worry that they have a conflict of interest. If you really get well, you won't need them anymore. They have an inherent motive to help you only enough to take credit for things going better, not enough to set you free from needing their services. If you turn to family, coworkers, or fr…

> A stranger or advice columnist may not give good advice, but they are somewhat less likely to give advice designed to encourage you to cut your own throat for their personal benefit.

Why is that? I think it's just as likely they are willing to give advice they think the majority of their audience will agree with regardless of how well it helps the person in question. In this case, the conflict is fame vs usefulness.

I think every source will have some perverse incentives, so you can't just go by whether one exists, but instead by how likely it is, what the repercussions are if they're caught, and are there cultural or personal biases that work against those perverse incentives.

Does your psychiatrist seem like someone that actually wants to help people? Do they appear to be greedy or in financial trouble? Perhaps worrying they are trying to keep you as income is unwarranted, or perhaps it should be reconsidered after progress is stalled or they don't seem to have anything useful to contribute.

Are you going to family members or friends that you believe care about you and your well-being, and/or that are upstanding people in their own right? Perhaps that should be what you focus on instead of perceived favoritism or vying for inheritance.

Sometimes good advice is hard to take, and points out flaws you would rather not address given an alternative. Discounting everyone that might actually have knowledge of the situation and other perspectives in lieu of a distant third party seems like a convenient way to discount that advice when it doesn't match expectations because "they just don't understand the situation well enough".

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