When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves • Hacker News Board

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#451

Post by moate » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 8:42 PM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #421

moate wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaporizing is better than smoking because it creates fewer carbon particles. Also there's fewer carcinogens (we're pretty sure on this one, but people like to argue about it) in pot than in tobacco. Another point is that you don't need to inhale at all, you could ingest since THC is alcohol and fat soluble. Many people find this to be a good way to imbibe because it's a more controlled dosage (if I use 1 LB of the sa…

I am fine with it becoming legal in the world with the condition there are not financial interest to increase the consumption. In the past smoking was not considered cool until advertising made it appear cool, especially for women.

I mean, that seems like a stretch. I agree that most drug advertising (including alcohol) should be limited and never targeted towards children, but IDK how you can limit a financial interest to not increase consumption. Even if you allow home production, there's going to be bong companies and vaporizer manufacturers that want more people buying their products.

Legalize weed, don't market it towards children, let adults do what they want if they're not harming themselves. Substance abuse problems (which are entirely different from the issues surrounding smoking, which wasn't "cool" but just "the thing that literally everyone does" prior to advertising) are mental health issues more so than access to a substance issue. People become alcoholics because they're genetically inclined towards the it or because they are trying to escape something about their circumstances (or frequently both).

TL;dr- Plenty of people already smoke weed, and nobody advocating legalization is advocating for people to be allowed to drive stoned or let children buy pot.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#452

Post by simplify » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 8:45 PM UTC

zchrykng wrote: post #443

simplify wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, that's the entire point. Without prohibition they are innocent. With prohibition they are criminals. That is why prohibition is dramatically worse. People who are not a threat to society are imputed as criminals, losing their life to jailtime and a permanent criminal record.

The same argument could be made for anything. Not paying your taxes is only illegal because there is a law that says you have to. You can't just define words to have whatever meaning you want. If you agree that they did something illegal then you can't call them innocent without lying. It isn't that hard, don't do illegal drugs if you don't want to be called a criminal. You can work to make them legal, but that doesn…

I'm not "defining words to have whatever meaning". I explicitly agreed with you on the technicality of innocent vs criminal ("Of course"), and brought the conversation back the actual point:

Prihibition is dramatically worse because it imputes criminal charges onto people who are otherwise innocent. This is bad because these people are not a threat to society, yet with prohibition they lose their life to jailtime and a permanent criminal record.

I never said they are not illegal right now.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#453

Post by umvi » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 8:49 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #118

Pediatric neurology and neurology are different specialties in medicine because developing brains are very different from adult brains. I'm all for legalizing pot and it's just natural that young people _experiment_ with drugs. That does not mean that constant drug use during adolescence should be perceived as normal or harmless.

> I'm all for legalizing pot and it's just natural that young people _experiment_ with drugs.

That doesn't mean we should make it easier for them to experiment.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#454

Post by jwdunne » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

framebit wrote: post #278

A therapist friend recently attended a conference where a big group of doctors and health professionals focused around adolescents presented on the link between pot and the development of psychosis and even schizophrenia in users under age 32 or something like that. I've definitely heard about this colloquially with people reacting very differently to the same strain ("we were all fine but she was just freaking out")…

A personal anecdote of mine. A friend has schizophrenia. There was a clear point of descent from smoking cannabis. He was 13 at the time - young for schizophrenia. He's now on clozapine, a powerful antipsychotic. Whenever his judgement fails him and he smokes pot, it's weeks to months before he has to spend some time in hospital. Otherwise, he could take other, heavier drugs to excess and not require urgent hospitalisation.

The rule for him was always "cannabis triggers".

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#455

Post by passwordreset » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 8:55 PM UTC

narzu wrote: post #5

S0ckpupp3t wrote: post #4

A drug more benign than alcohol. Smoke too much, take a nap. Smoke too often, cut down and get sharp again. Drink too much, you get flu symptoms. Drink too much too often, you get a new liver, or die.

The fact that alcohol and tobacco are legal doesn't mean we should legalise all drugs that are somewhat healthier than alcohol and tobacco. I think we can do much better.

That argument is backwards. If marijuana is illegal for the stated reason that it has negative health affects, then everything that has worse affects should also be illegal.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#456

Post by simion314 » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 8:57 PM UTC

moate wrote: post #451

simion314 wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fine with it becoming legal in the world with the condition there are not financial interest to increase the consumption. In the past smoking was not considered cool until advertising made it appear cool, especially for women.

I mean, that seems like a stretch. I agree that most drug advertising (including alcohol) should be limited and never targeted towards children, but IDK how you can limit a financial interest to not increase consumption. Even if you allow home production, there's going to be bong companies and vaporizer manufacturers that want more people buying their products. Legalize weed, don't market it towards children, let adu…

It is also a social thing, young people smoke not because it is a mental issue but because it is cool, their freiends smoke so they try it. If the movies,music will show that is cool and the risk of smoking pot is small then getting the truth out-there will be expensive. Some rich business makes tons of money and the society needs to pay for studies, education, health treatments.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#457

Post by moate » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 9:02 PM UTC

InitialLastName wrote: post #76

simion314 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you have big financial interest from tabacoo (or other) industry that promotes consumption of X and on the other hand you have an under-budgeted health department that will try to spread information and make studies etc. So the average person will be tricked by the gigantic adverting campaigns... my point a person can't do a correct choice when big money companies have the intrest he does the wron…

It's funny you brought up tobacco, since it's a counter-example to your point. Somehow, even with Big Tobacco putting tons of money towards promotion and an under-funded health department spreading information, we've arrived at a society where a) nobody can deny that tobacco consumption is harmful (and be seen as sane) and b) tobacco consumption is declining (nicotine use may not be, but it's also not clear that nico…

>>b) tobacco consumption is declining (nicotine use may not be, but it's also not clear that nicotine use alone is as harmful).

Sure it's not "as harmful" but a shotgun isn't as harmful as a nuclear bomb. Relative harm isn't important here, it's just "ability to cause harm" and understanding the likelihood that could happen. A car can cause harm, but most people drive safely. Nobody smokes a pack a day for 30 years with ill effects. We're not sure exactly what happens is you vape the equivalent level of just nicotine and additives, but we're pretty sure it's not going to be a good thing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#458

Post by henrieri » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 9:03 PM UTC

zchrykng wrote: post #443

simplify wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, that's the entire point. Without prohibition they are innocent. With prohibition they are criminals. That is why prohibition is dramatically worse. People who are not a threat to society are imputed as criminals, losing their life to jailtime and a permanent criminal record.

The same argument could be made for anything. Not paying your taxes is only illegal because there is a law that says you have to. You can't just define words to have whatever meaning you want. If you agree that they did something illegal then you can't call them innocent without lying. It isn't that hard, don't do illegal drugs if you don't want to be called a criminal. You can work to make them legal, but that doesn…

The point is that a person who otherwise works and provides value, but does cannabis is better for the society as a working person rather than someone in prison where people will pay with taxes for his living. If you skip on taxes you are living off of society so this should be illegal ofcourse.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#459

Post by flattone » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 9:14 PM UTC

jeffdavis wrote: post #441

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a huge opposer of legalization, because I've seen what pot has done to people I care about. I would point out that solution to the negatives of prohibition is not legalization, but decriminalization. The issue with legalization is that it removes the stigma with trying it, which means we get more users than otherwise. We can maintain the very correct statements that drugs are bad and that all possible care shoul…

Maybe we need ways other than the law to stigmatize bad behavior. The law is a blunt instrument. Churches might serve this purpose, but those are out of fashion now.

Thank God (:p)

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#460

Post by zchrykng » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 9:14 PM UTC

henrieri wrote: post #458

zchrykng wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same argument could be made for anything. Not paying your taxes is only illegal because there is a law that says you have to. You can't just define words to have whatever meaning you want. If you agree that they did something illegal then you can't call them innocent without lying. It isn't that hard, don't do illegal drugs if you don't want to be called a criminal. You can work to make them legal, but that doesn…

The point is that a person who otherwise works and provides value, but does cannabis is better for the society as a working person rather than someone in prison where people will pay with taxes for his living. If you skip on taxes you are living off of society so this should be illegal ofcourse.

Never disagreed with that. I'm just objecting to the usage of "innocent" in this context.