When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves • Hacker News Board

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#61

Post by toyg » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 1:51 PM UTC

mbrock wrote: post #48

kranner wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just correlation. Maybe they started smoking early on because they had big psychological problems already.

There might also be some risk of psychological damage when you use a criminalized substance that has anxiety as a common side effect. For example, it's easy to see how that could make you a bit reclusive. So anyone who's really concerned about the mental health of cannabis users is obliged to consider the damaging effects of its very criminality. (There are all kinds of other factors. Like cannabis use being correlat…

Not to mention that such criminalized substance might well have been mishandled by criminal resellers with no regard for public health. Any time one buys a criminalised substance, it's like he was going to eat a box of unlabelled chocolate: maybe it's safe to eat, or maybe it's full of rat excrement - you don't know until it's too late.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#62

Post by toyg » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

mbrock wrote: post #60

toyg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should definitely still be telling teens not to smoke pot, or really take any psychoactive drugs. And I say this as someone who has done a lot of them. Man has this annoying tendency not to believe facts unless they are experienced directly. You can tell teens what you want and they will still do what they want, especially if they know you did the same and ended up alright. I agree that honesty is the best polic…

Teens also have this horribly annoying tendency to go on the internet and find other points of views. Like, I remember finding that essay where Carl Sagan explains how sensible cannabis smoking helped him appreciate art and music, gave him good ideas for articles and books, and was generally a hell of a nice time.

Absolutely. The main problem is exactly that - pretty much everything is good, in moderation.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#63

Post by noxToken » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

beaconstudios wrote: post #36

jerf wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have done much better. Look at tobacco usage. It hasn't plummeted because it was outlawed. I don't think we'd necessarily get the same plummet with marijuana, because the health story isn't quite as uniformly bad, and I get the sense that pot users don't get as acclimated as cigarette users, who seem to be smoking not to feel good but to avoid withdrawal. (Just on the drug's own terms, tobacco is a really bad deal…

as an ex-smoker who sometimes relapses for short periods, for me it's not to avoid withdrawal. It relieves stress and anxiety, and also gives me an excuse to step out of the office for a few minutes for a break or to collect my thoughts.

Classic tactic in the military: I wasn't a smoker, but under certain circumstances, I'd carry a pack with me so I could have a "smoke" break. Sometimes people would call me out, so I'd light one up without inhaling until that person left. Then I'd just give the cigarette to an actual smoker.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#64

Post by Kurtz79 » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

narzu wrote: post #16

zaroth wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Do much better” is a platitude - it conveys zero information as to what you actually believe should be done differently.

We should move towards the elimination of all drugs. Prohibition has worked wonderfully well for tobacco in many countries, cutting consumption in half and even more.

"Prohibition has worked wonderfully well for tobacco in many countries"

Examples? As far as I know in most western countries tobacco "prohibition" is limited to interior common spaces, not in private homes or in the open (say, on the street).

It is actively discouraged (and in that it has been very succesful) through PSAs, medical counseling, warnings on packets, high taxes and the mentioned public bans, but that's not "prohibition".

"Prohibition" is more akin to the alcohol ban in the US in the 1920s, or the current status for drugs in most countries.

In all cases it has been far from successful, the only things that are accomplished is favoring the black market and related criminal activities.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#65

Post by Xylakant » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 1:54 PM UTC

narzu wrote: post #16

zaroth wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Do much better” is a platitude - it conveys zero information as to what you actually believe should be done differently.

We should move towards the elimination of all drugs. Prohibition has worked wonderfully well for tobacco in many countries, cutting consumption in half and even more.

How is tobacco prohibited? Smoking in public spaces is prohibited, but tobacco is still legal to buy, own, smoke or use in any way you want.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#66

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

narzo wrote: post #33

sigi45 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? It is not your choice to tell me if I wanna get buzzed or not. I don't mind others smoking. I mind wrong advertising, advertising to kids, cigarettbutts, the stink etc.

Actually yes, it's society's choice to tell you what you can do or not. Deal with it, or maybe go to live to Liberland.

[deleted]

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#67

Post by Waterluvian » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

Maybe this is too reductionist but I once heard someone describe it as, "there's nothing fundamentally dangerous about pot, but one of its (often intended) effects is that is slows our engines down. And some of us need to be firing on all cylinders."

School was a tricky time for me. I'm thriving intellectually now, but I was a C- student pretty much 4th-12th grade. I needed those cycles that pot would have robbed me of.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#68

Post by tosser8398b9 » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 1:56 PM UTC

5trokerac3 wrote: post #59

S0ckpupp3t wrote: post #4

A drug more benign than alcohol. Smoke too much, take a nap. Smoke too often, cut down and get sharp again. Drink too much, you get flu symptoms. Drink too much too often, you get a new liver, or die.

"more benign" !== "benign" Everyone I know that smokes daily (a lot of people) is less cognitive than those I know who don't smoke, in every arena except artistic pursuits. And not everyone reacts to weed the same way. I decided to quit when I recognized a lessened ability to solve complex coding questions the day after smoking.

I’ve had many programming design breakthroughs while lifted. Write ‘em down, check ‘em the next day - many remain awesome (and some are confused).

Something about the heightened ability to focus on a single thing, deeply.

As you say - it’s a deeply personal thing. I also never actually smoke anymore. Edibles FTW

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#69

Post by dredds » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 1:57 PM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #7

S0ckpupp3t wrote: post #4

A drug more benign than alcohol. Smoke too much, take a nap. Smoke too often, cut down and get sharp again. Drink too much, you get flu symptoms. Drink too much too often, you get a new liver, or die.

>Smoke too often, cut down and get sharp again. Unfortunately not. If you spend a long time smoking you'll end up permanently slower in the brain. Also, let's not forget our friend lung cancer.

> Unfortunately not. If you spend a long time smoking you'll end up permanently slower in the brain.

"permanently slower" based on what evidence? By what measure? Are you speaking from personal experience? (i stopped a few years ago after decades of smoking. Memory as sharp as it's ever been. Creative spark is lower than when i smoked. Will resume when our laws change.)

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#70

Post by i-am-charmander » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 1:57 PM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #7

S0ckpupp3t wrote: post #4

A drug more benign than alcohol. Smoke too much, take a nap. Smoke too often, cut down and get sharp again. Drink too much, you get flu symptoms. Drink too much too often, you get a new liver, or die.

>Smoke too often, cut down and get sharp again. Unfortunately not. If you spend a long time smoking you'll end up permanently slower in the brain. Also, let's not forget our friend lung cancer.

A family member of mine basically smoked away her future, in a sense, throughout middle and high school. She wasn't always the brightest candle in the box, but the heavy marijuana use certainly didn't help. She has the cognition and mental maturity of a 14-year old, now at 30 years.

Seeing how it affected her prompted me to "take a hint" and I've avoided the stuff since. That's not to say I avoid alcohol at all, however, but my family seems to handle the latter much better.

Edit: this is complete anec-data - I don't have any hard-and-fast evidence of long-term impairments like I describe above. Just what I've seen.