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Why I Am An Anarchist

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Re: Why I Am An Anarchist

#11

Post by iskander »

face wrote: post #6
lukevdp wrote: post #2

Just because a government can possibly turn ugly, it doesn't mean that no government is better. The argument is akin to "beef can give you food poisoning, so we should eradicate all cows". Everyone hates paying taxes... But anarchy? Come on. The fabric of the society that has advanced so far in the last 300 years is built on, at the very least, property rights and stability

I do not think he is arguing against property rights. I think that forms of anarchy allow for property rights and other individual liberties.

Can you explain more? How can property rights and individual liberties be secured without the police?

Re: Why I Am An Anarchist

#12

Post by e40 »

iterationx wrote: post #3

If there was no government then gangs would take over.

In this day and age, I think it would be corporations. The void left by no government would be filled by the second most powerful entities, and those are most certainly corporations.

When I read "Market Forces" (scifi) I thought, very entertaining but completely unrealistic. In the absence of government, maybe not.

Re: Why I Am An Anarchist

#13

Post by astine »

face wrote: post #6
lukevdp wrote: post #2

Just because a government can possibly turn ugly, it doesn't mean that no government is better. The argument is akin to "beef can give you food poisoning, so we should eradicate all cows". Everyone hates paying taxes... But anarchy? Come on. The fabric of the society that has advanced so far in the last 300 years is built on, at the very least, property rights and stability

I do not think he is arguing against property rights. I think that forms of anarchy allow for property rights and other individual liberties.

In theory, but not practice. Hobbes particularly, makes the point that without government, property rights are largely unenforcible. The strong will out.

Re: Why I Am An Anarchist

#14

Post by steveklabnik »

face wrote: post #6
lukevdp wrote: post #2

Just because a government can possibly turn ugly, it doesn't mean that no government is better. The argument is akin to "beef can give you food poisoning, so we should eradicate all cows". Everyone hates paying taxes... But anarchy? Come on. The fabric of the society that has advanced so far in the last 300 years is built on, at the very least, property rights and stability

I do not think he is arguing against property rights. I think that forms of anarchy allow for property rights and other individual liberties.

ESR might not argue against property rights, because I'd bet he's an "anarcho"-capitalist. All other forms of anarchism don't believe in property, but ancaps do. This is why you'll often (well, in anarchist discussions, anyway) hear that "ancaps aren't anarchists."

Re: Why I Am An Anarchist

#15

Post by lukevdp »

face wrote: post #6
lukevdp wrote: post #2

Just because a government can possibly turn ugly, it doesn't mean that no government is better. The argument is akin to "beef can give you food poisoning, so we should eradicate all cows". Everyone hates paying taxes... But anarchy? Come on. The fabric of the society that has advanced so far in the last 300 years is built on, at the very least, property rights and stability

I do not think he is arguing against property rights. I think that forms of anarchy allow for property rights and other individual liberties.

I thought that as soon as you start introducing rights, you're talking about a libertarian

Re: Why I Am An Anarchist

#16

Post by ryandvm »

My take on the article is that the author is basically advocating less powerful central government. What he fails to recognize in the article are that strong state and local governments are part of the balance that the Constitution put in place and they work quite well.

Indeed, not only is strong local governance a good preventative measure against the unlikely military coup, it works for all kinds of things. Want socialized healthcare? No reason your state can't do it. Don't want a national war on drugs? California is about find out if one is actually constitutional.

When you have states with economies that are larger than most countries, there is no reason to be bumping so many responsibilities up to the federal level.

Re: Why I Am An Anarchist

#17

Post by swombat »

A pretty poor argument for gun ownership...

If this was the case, then personal handguns should be made illegal, and assault weapons should be available to all with appropriate training.

Handguns aren't going to do much if the US government decides to ethnically cleanse a state.

Re: Why I Am An Anarchist

#18

Post by steveklabnik »

pbourke wrote: post #5
iterationx wrote: post #3

If there was no government then gangs would take over.

this was downvoted, but it is true. Look at Somalia.

First of all, Somalia is not a great example of anarchy. All anarchists recognize that there needs to be significant social change before anarchism could happen; just toppling a government without changing the people leads to very, very bad things.[1]

Secondly, Somalia has done really well without government, depending on who you ask. There are studies that show [2] that it's only after the UN started screwing around and trying to impose a state that it stabilized into smaller, community-level governments. I'm no expert on Somalia, but you also have to recognize that when the institution of a state is recognized as the default condition, even a successful transition to anarchism would be talked about as 'failed.'

1: http://c4ss.org/content/2859

2: http://www.independent.org/publications/working_papers/artic...

Re: Why I Am An Anarchist

#19

Post by iterationx »

e40 wrote: post #12
iterationx wrote: post #3

If there was no government then gangs would take over.

In this day and age, I think it would be corporations. The void left by no government would be filled by the second most powerful entities, and those are most certainly corporations. When I read "Market Forces" (scifi) I thought, very entertaining but completely unrealistic. In the absence of government, maybe not.

Maybe Halliburton or Bechtel or Blackwater, they have the biggest weapons

Re: Why I Am An Anarchist

#20

Post by steveklabnik »

geoka9 wrote: post #10
lukevdp wrote: post #2

Just because a government can possibly turn ugly, it doesn't mean that no government is better. The argument is akin to "beef can give you food poisoning, so we should eradicate all cows". Everyone hates paying taxes... But anarchy? Come on. The fabric of the society that has advanced so far in the last 300 years is built on, at the very least, property rights and stability

I like to consider myself an "anarcho-democrat" in the sense that I favor democracy and free market for all practical reasons, while recognizing that the state is a necessary evil, which needs to be distrusted, checked upon and controlled by the people as much as practically possible.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Minarchism
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