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The backlash against overtourism

economist.com

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Re: The backlash against overtourism

#171

Post by Chathamization »

esotericn wrote: post #4

Mass tourism is being treated as unique when really, we're discovering that everyone cannot have a "good" standard of living. We can't all go travelling, we won't fit in the same place and we'll boil the earth doing so. We can't all have a car because we'll boil the earth. If we develop EV's and don't boil the earth, they won't all fit downtown. We can't all live in the country, that's not sustainable either. We can'…

One mistake people make is pretending that every choice we make is a hard one with no good answers. Sometimes there are good decisions and bad ones, and we end up making bad ones even when the good ones are obvious. We often see this happen with individuals, it shouldn't be too surprising that this happens with societies as well.

A few years back when I looked at solutions to "cooking this planet" that didn't involve anything that would cause much disruption to most people's lives. The reason we're not solving the problem isn't because of the hard choices we have to make. It's because a few industries that might make less money if we fight climate change try to stop efforts to combat it, politicians who get money from these industries say climate change is a hoax, the public at large is largely too apathetic to remove politicians who don't act, people who oppose all collective action oppose collective action to fight climate change, the media doesn't report on it because it doesn't get ratings, etc.

Could we have everyone's standards are close to the current standards enjoyed by developed countries without destroying the planet? Maybe, maybe not. It's insanely premature to pretend that we know it's impossible. Not only have we not seriously tried to solve the problem, but a large part of the U.S. is actively opposed to even stopping the problem. "There's no solution" is an easy way to absolve us from our failures.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#172

Post by cr1895 »

csomar wrote: post #113
Fuxy wrote: post #14

I found the quote “tourists go home, refugees welcome” quite funny. So what their basically saying is they would rather kick out tourists that bring in and spend quite a lot of money effectively boosting the economy in favour of some refugees the government will have to spend a large amount of money on... and you wonder why the contry's economy is in such a bad shape when the citizens advocate shooting themselves in…

I don't think they mean it literally but it is rather an indirect "You are just as worse as the refugees if not worse".

That is not what "refugees welcome" implies.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#173

Post by mitchdoogle »

pyrale wrote: post #160
whack wrote: post #123

If cities really had a problem with "overtourism", there's a simple solution: 1. Gouge the hell out of tourists by jacking up the taxes on hotels & tourist attractions. Exemptions provided only for those with local IDs/passports 2. Redistribute the resulting tax dollars to all city residents Either you will successfully drive away all tourists, or you'll be making so much money that your residents will love them. The…

Your argument reads like you believe that the proceeds of tourism are equally shared among the population. I don't get a dime if someone starts renting next door via airbnb to endless parties of nightlife addicted tourists.

He's arguing that that tax dollars should be divided among the city's residents, so even if you don't own an AirBNB or business, you will still benefit economically.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#174

Post by Nasrudith »

coldtea wrote: post #55
esotericn wrote: post #4

Mass tourism is being treated as unique when really, we're discovering that everyone cannot have a "good" standard of living. We can't all go travelling, we won't fit in the same place and we'll boil the earth doing so. We can't all have a car because we'll boil the earth. If we develop EV's and don't boil the earth, they won't all fit downtown. We can't all live in the country, that's not sustainable either. We can'…

> It sucks. But what's the alternative? It's perfectly reasonable to drag people out of poverty. But the idea that everyone should be able to do the same things implies a set of "things" very different from what, say, the middle class families on my suburban street do today. Exactly. The "eternal growing of the economic cake" which the majority of the related policies are based on, ignores limits to growth (e.g. ener…

The thing is not all wealth is raw materials. While we are at least thousands of times richer than peasant herders from ancient times we don't have 17k head of cattle each.

While there is likely still a limit assuming economic growth must stop entirely is overly simplistic. There are many areas where the limit is research - drugs themselves are fairly cheap to manufacture but expensive to develop, test, and set up initial manufacturing infrastructure - but once done the expenses are marginal. Essentially to continue growth we need to work smarter not harder - often by increasing efficiency and decreasing input needs.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#175

Post by moate »

conanbatt wrote: post #107
InitialLastName wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much none of those things will make it reasonable for someone from, say, Central African Republic to visit Venice.

Why?

Let's assume you're from N'Délé, in the North Central portion of the country. Let's also assume you've got twice the national average in wealth, or about $800 USD.

Which of those methods is "reasonable" for you to use as a tourist. The bike is clearly out. You can take a ferry across the Mediterranean once you get to it, but that's a whole thing. There is no train and buses would be...a lot. A straight car ride is 104 hours, or just over 4 days each way. And again, you make $804 USD/year.

Is OP's example helpful to the conversation: IDK, possibly? But the idea that it's reasonable for a tourist might be a bit much. IDK, who am I to say what's reasonable for people who make less in a year than I do in about 3 days.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/n'd%C3%A9l%C3%A9/venice/@25....

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#176

Post by abalone »

This article is mostly about overcrowding but another important consideration is carbon footprint. The carbon footprint of tourism is a big blindspot in the "liberal" mindset (speaking as one). On the one hand travel is supposed to be good and healthy for your development and the broadening on your mind.. Anthony Bourdain.. listen and exposure yourself to cultures.. etc. On the other, air travel is 100% fossil fuel based. Flying to Europe from SF is like driving coast to coast in a gas car.

We could use a healthy backlash against the idea that everyone should strive to fly around the world. Sustainability must come first. This is a bitter pill for us "liberals" to swallow, I think.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#177

Post by logfromblammo »

grogenaut wrote: post #116

This was one of the undertones of the Hyperion series. People from Rich planets setting gates to gorgeous poor ones and then slowly destroying the unique cultures shaped by totally different planets for their comfort. Also evil AI and man that guy hates the Catholic Church.

Also, rich folk could have every room of their houses be on different planets, so that their only interaction with a planet could be that they go there only to poop in its ocean.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#179

Post by conanbatt »

moate wrote: post #175
conanbatt wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Let's assume you're from N'Délé, in the North Central portion of the country. Let's also assume you've got twice the national average in wealth, or about $800 USD. Which of those methods is "reasonable" for you to use as a tourist. The bike is clearly out. You can take a ferry across the Mediterranean once you get to it, but that's a whole thing. There is no train and buses would be...a lot. A straight car ride is 10…

Momentary inconveniences of todays technology and productivity. In our lifetime we will see people go to space with private funds, that not the wealthiest person on earth could have achieved 50 years ago.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#180

Post by 40acres »

I like to travel but hate overcrowded touristy places. There are some popular spots where the overcrowding actually seems to be a part of the experience (Time Square for instance) but I will probably never go see the Mona Lisa or Sistine Chapel because it's filled to the brim.

When I travel I have some pretty simple heuristics, if we're staying at a resort I prefer a smaller luxury resort, ideally w/o kids, and I like to go in the off season, which so far has meant Sept-Oct or March-April, depending on the climate of the location.

There are lots of smaller towns and cities near the big tourists hubs that have a lot of charm. When I visited Italy I went to Positano, a small town on the Almafi coast about an hour from Naples. The city was great and I was able to visit the island of Capri and check out Pompeii all while being stationed in a small, beautiful town. There were tourists but it did not feel overcrowded.

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