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The backlash against overtourism

economist.com

141–150 of 311 posts

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#141
post #39

We need (very) high fidelity virtual reality to save the planet, making traveling superfluous. I'm afraid we're still far away from that development.

It's sad how travel, to most people, is just seeing things.

No wonder so many HN comments are grandstanding about how they dislike or don't need travel: they aren't talking about meeting other people or experiencing other cultures. They're just talking about weekend travel packages where they're shuttled around to take some pictures.

How incredibly boring.

Your VR idea like saying you've been to Prague because you spent extensive time in Google Maps street view: I wouldn't even bother.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#142
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main difference will be that, thanks to the direction our "tech" industry has been headed, "our" matrix will be projecting a constant stream of advertisements onto any natural wonder or monument you attempt to "visit". "Half Dome -- BROUGHT TO YOU BY PEPSI"

In a virtual reality where you can zap any good you might like into existence, why would Pepsi need to exist?

Because here in real reality, humans still need to consume actual food and fluids to survive. Strapping a headset on and pretending to drink a virtual good won't sustain you.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#143

Mass tourism is being treated as unique when really, we're discovering that everyone cannot have a "good" standard of living. We can't all go travelling, we won't fit in the same place and we'll boil the earth doing so. We can't all have a car because we'll boil the earth. If we develop EV's and don't boil the earth, they won't all fit downtown. We can't all live in the country, that's not sustainable either. We can'…

So there for some reason seems to be a melding of the ideas of raising quality of life and eliminating inequality, which don't necessarily have to be the same thing. I do not think it is unreasonable that 100 years from today the lower middle class has access to everything the upper class of America has today (from a material perspective), while there may still exist an upper class that can do even more (travel to Jupiter or something? I dunno.) I'm aware this is not a new idea, just wanting to make sure we restate as much.

Separately, while I concede that some of these aspects may very well not scale, there isn't enough attention paid to the idea that some may scale better. First world countries tend to have lower brith rates than third world ones. Perhaps if we raised the quality of life enough across the globe, we'd actually level off the population demands dramatically as a result.

Similarly, while some people certainly do want cars, what most people actually want is to get from point A to point B. If we can get to a world of self driving cars, the grid lock problem may disappear and be replaced with a perfectly feasible alternative that's actually safer.

So yeah, I think its quite possible that not everyone will be able to do the same "set of things", but I don't see how that has any bearing in trying to make any particular thing more accessible to everyone. I assure you a new "thing" will pop up that will still be only accessible to a few. That's the way its been so far in history anyways, not sure what's special about now.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#144

Mass tourism is being treated as unique when really, we're discovering that everyone cannot have a "good" standard of living. We can't all go travelling, we won't fit in the same place and we'll boil the earth doing so. We can't all have a car because we'll boil the earth. If we develop EV's and don't boil the earth, they won't all fit downtown. We can't all live in the country, that's not sustainable either. We can'…

> I find this to be an odd aspect of certain political movements at the moment - unwilling to accept that the Universe _is_ actually a big competition, and either some people lose, or we all lose.

Life is competitive, yes, but it is not just that. You could reduce all of human history to competition, but obviously we put a great deal more meaning into it than that. Why give up now?

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#145

The problem with most tourist destinations is the same as the tragedy of the commons: there's a bunch of tour guides, restaurants, airlines, hotels, etc that can sell a piece of the common heritage, and there's no overall coordination of the total amount served. I went to Galapagos, and they were thinking of limiting the total number of visitors. To me this make a lot of sense. You can't have hordes of people showing…

There's no "auction" , it's called competition. All the government has to do is increase tax in tourist services.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#146
post #53

I won't argue about off topic issues, but I don't think mass tourism is killing any sights. Ignorance kills natural sights, over advertisement kills human created sights. Nearby Venice there's so much interesting stuff and small cities, a bit further are big cities. None of them really struggles with tourists as much as Venice. Maybe you'll see a huge line for Firenze Duomo but that's it, streets and other sights are…

>All Italy has to do is start load balancing tourists. This is the approach the city of Amsterdam is trying in order to alleviate the huge tourism pressure. I'm not sure how effective it has been. It has resulted in funny things like "Amsterdam Castle" or "Amsterdam Beach" in tourist promotions that have nothing to do with Amsterdam. But, if it spreads the load...

Taken to the logical extreme in this Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/DieTukkerfries/status/105369668935211827...

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#147
post #46

If you stay on Venice, you can explore away from the busiest tourist areas during the day, then at night when most of the tourists leave, have the city to yourself to explore. Obviously a place can be loved or touristed to death. Groups with a large number of people arriving all at once (whether by van or bus or ship) exacerbate it. But everywhere I've traveled, even very popular places, if you can find a way to avoi…

It IS a theme park, albeit a sloppy one. If the city did not rely on tourism they would have more efficient boats, perhaps some other transportation system (so that the city is actually livable by working age locals, and not just by pensioners), some squares would have a playground instead of cafes and jewelry shops etc. Tourism sets the whole city to "tourist mode", slow and geared only towards tourism-related businesses. It wouldn't work as a tech city for example (even though i would love to see the innovations they would have to build for it). It has been museum-ified by choice of the Venetians.

I love the history of Venice to bits (I live in one of their former conquests) , but nowadays its indeed like a disney construction, you can't trust it to maintain a culture. Even the art students who frequent the various squares look like posers.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#148
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He talked about environmental issues, not economic ones.

Environmental issues are economic issues.

A totalitarian ideology is one that tries to creep into every aspect of our life, and rejects the exploration of alternative models.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#149
post #132

Mass tourism is being treated as unique when really, we're discovering that everyone cannot have a "good" standard of living. We can't all go travelling, we won't fit in the same place and we'll boil the earth doing so. We can't all have a car because we'll boil the earth. If we develop EV's and don't boil the earth, they won't all fit downtown. We can't all live in the country, that's not sustainable either. We can'…

> We can't all have a car because we'll boil the earth. If we > develop EV's and don't boil the earth, they won't all fit > downtown. > > We can't all live in the country, that's not sustainable > either. You hit the nail in the head. The only way for 7+ billions humans to live sustain-ably on planet earth, is to accept high density living and shared spaces. High density living in the form of apartments with common g…

> High density living in the form of apartments with common gardening, grilling areas, shared yards and complete reliance on public transportation.

Did you just describe most of EU and some of east coast US cities? ;)

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#150

Mass tourism is being treated as unique when really, we're discovering that everyone cannot have a "good" standard of living. We can't all go travelling, we won't fit in the same place and we'll boil the earth doing so. We can't all have a car because we'll boil the earth. If we develop EV's and don't boil the earth, they won't all fit downtown. We can't all live in the country, that's not sustainable either. We can'…

The only practical solution, given human nature, is your second option: "accept economic inequality".

Humans being what they are, people just won't accept being told that they can't fly to New Zealand for their 2 week adventure holiday.

However if the price of the tickets reflects the cost to the environment - say it costs $10K instead of $2K - then the environment can be protected, and the lucky few can continue to indulge, while others must forgo or get there by e.g. deck handing on a yacht (by which I mean a sailboat, not a Larry Ellison style super yacht).

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