Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The backlash against overtourism

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 311 posts

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#31

Post by mijamo »

esotericn wrote: post #13
thieving_magpie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Mass tourism is being treated as unique when really, we're discovering that everyone cannot have a "good" standard of living. I've read this 5 times. I can't figure out the relation between tourism and everything else in your post. Are you just expounding on the fact that not everyone lives an equal life in the world or is there a greater point I'm missing?

A distilled form: Tourism is not a special case. The same issue applies to tons of activities. We either limit these activities to a privileged few, or the activities cease to exist in their original form. Everyone loses in the latter case.

I think this is just wrong and some kind of modern malthusianism.

IMO the logical outcome would be that the most trendy destinations will get more expensive, thus overpricing many tourists and regulating itself, and that it will open a new opportunity for many places which are not today super touristic.

SO everybody will be a tourist, just not at the same place.

It is already happening actually, you have much more touristic places than it used to be and the potential is huge. I mean just look how many tourists you can fit in France or Italy and imagine if Asia and Africa scale tourism in the same way. Many costs are under/mis-used. The brazilian cost could be much more used than it is right now.

This has also already happened before. When Spain got more expensive, tourism grew in Tunisia and Turkey, and there is still a lot of potential there. Eastern Europe also still has a lot of underused potential.

New touristic places just appear naturally when you have a market. Not everybody goes to Tahiti, but there is potential for some destination for everybody.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#32

Post by mc32 »

esotericn wrote: post #4

Mass tourism is being treated as unique when really, we're discovering that everyone cannot have a "good" standard of living. We can't all go travelling, we won't fit in the same place and we'll boil the earth doing so. We can't all have a car because we'll boil the earth. If we develop EV's and don't boil the earth, they won't all fit downtown. We can't all live in the country, that's not sustainable either. We can'…

Maybe Bhutan provides a glimpse of what tourism can be. Put a cap on the numbers and charge a significant fee for a tourist visa. I’m sure this might seem extreme, but with more people getting into midfle class and affording the yearly foreign vacation, something has to be done. It’s completely unsustainable.

Not only does the environment suffer, but the locals also have no sense of what their locale is like normally without tourists. Thay don’t get to experience their own baseline.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#33

Post by komali2 »

esotericn wrote: post #13
thieving_magpie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Mass tourism is being treated as unique when really, we're discovering that everyone cannot have a "good" standard of living. I've read this 5 times. I can't figure out the relation between tourism and everything else in your post. Are you just expounding on the fact that not everyone lives an equal life in the world or is there a greater point I'm missing?

A distilled form: Tourism is not a special case. The same issue applies to tons of activities. We either limit these activities to a privileged few, or the activities cease to exist in their original form. Everyone loses in the latter case.

Would your point stand in a world where every nation had a technology level of 2018 Canada, and a global population of 3 billion?

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#34

Post by mattnewton »

Sounds like in many cases they need a pricing mechanism to pay for the externalities. A tourist tax on hotels downtown is nice, what about a tax on tourist alchohol? And cannabis in Amsterdam, that pays for the stag party cleanup? Tickets for publically vomiting after 10pm?

But in other cases, for any reasonable tax the demand might still keep outstripping supply. I guess that leaves unreasonably high fees, or something new and much more creative.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#35

Post by pradn »

jolesf wrote: post #3

“To be a mass tourist, for me, is to become a pure late-date American: alien, ignorant, greedy for something you cannot ever have, disappointed in a way you can never admit. It is to spoil, by way of sheer ontology, the very unspoiledness you are there to experience, It is to impose yourself on places that in all non-economic ways would be better, realer, without you. It is, in lines and gridlock and transaction afte…

While the sort of travel/tourism this quote describes is the common, default way of experiencing the fact of putting yourself in another place, we must allow for the genuine joy of meeting other humans, experiencing other beauty, and getting closer to other cultures. It's the hateful paradox of being a tourist - your difference is pronounced, concentrated.

As when home, a spirit of joy and generosity is the best way to go about going to other places.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#36

Post by galfarragem »

Fuxy wrote: post #24
knieveltech wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is good for the economy (short term) and what is good for people (long term) are frequently not the same things.

As far as I'm aware tourism is not a short term thing there will always be tourists coming and leaving this is an constant revenue steam in its own right. So I don't get what you mean.

He means that locals will be kicked out from their homes - or if they are luckier/smarter - will be living as animals in a zoo.

Mass tourism is dystopic. Living in a touristic area is like living in Disneyland: everything is fake. Did you ever wonder why 'experienced' tourists (we like to call ourselves travellers) don't like touristic areas?

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#37

Post by pradn »

jolesf wrote: post #3

“To be a mass tourist, for me, is to become a pure late-date American: alien, ignorant, greedy for something you cannot ever have, disappointed in a way you can never admit. It is to spoil, by way of sheer ontology, the very unspoiledness you are there to experience, It is to impose yourself on places that in all non-economic ways would be better, realer, without you. It is, in lines and gridlock and transaction afte…

Discussion from another time this quote was brought up. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8408870

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#38

Post by xkcd-sucks »

esotericn wrote: post #4

Mass tourism is being treated as unique when really, we're discovering that everyone cannot have a "good" standard of living. We can't all go travelling, we won't fit in the same place and we'll boil the earth doing so. We can't all have a car because we'll boil the earth. If we develop EV's and don't boil the earth, they won't all fit downtown. We can't all live in the country, that's not sustainable either. We can'…

"We" can maintain a high standard of living if the "we" is sparse enough. If you think as a nation-state citizen, a solution could be restricting immigration. If you think as a globalist, the solution is reducing population.

Re: The backlash against overtourism

#40

Post by ajmurmann »

Fuxy wrote: post #17
platz wrote: post #12

> Having spent decades trying to attract tourists This is what they designed for.

They really just need to search for ways to manage the crowds instead alienating them to be honest. Tourist bring a lot of money to local businesses you really shouldn't be killing the goose who lays the golden eggs if you ask me.

The article also mentions stack parties in the first paragraph. I believe those to be a common problem with tourism in European cities. That's to me an obvious and extreme case of unacceptable behavior by tourists. People who do things like that are running it for everyone else, the locals and other tourists. Maybe it would be appropriate of those people can stay home and learn how to behave respectfully in a different country before they get to travel again. I see it as every travelers duty to learn about different cultural norms in the destination country and to follow those and of course follow basic decency you'd follow at home. If we don't all do this, we cannot have nice things.
Post reply on HN