The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire • Hacker News Board

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#91

Post by drb91 » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 8:50 AM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #74

mywittyname wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it. If you tell a typical senior executive at a company that their actions will lead to the death of 10 million people, their primary concern will be if the company will still make money one the deal, then how they can hide their actions from regulators in order to maximize their return. You might think they would consider whether or not they'd be jailed, but that thought never crosses their mind.

I disagree. Very, very few people, CEOs included have that little disregard for human life. Most CEOs aren't that different from you or I.

FWIW I agree, but the CEOs that do fit the mold of ruthless and amoral are extraordinarily well suited for large scale business.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#92

Post by adventured » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 9:09 AM UTC

throwaway352352 wrote: post #62

zawerf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed surprising because the profit motive is there and it is not limited to just rival billionaires. Any random guy with enough capital can short the company stock and then place a hit on the CEO. I would expect stuff like that to happen super often but I don't think I have even heard of one real case like this.

If you want to go with a more Marxist interpretation, it's because they all know they can squeeze the lower classes for now. Once capitalism eats up all the growth they will turn on each other and capitalism will eat itself.

Three centuries and seven billion people later, we're all still waiting for that day the market-based systems run out of growth. Any century now.

And that's after the Marxists were forced to abandon their original premise: that it would deliver superior materialist results for the masses. When that spectacularly, entirely failed to come true and Marxism proved to be an economic and social disaster in every instance it has ever been attempted, the goal posts had to be endlessly shifted, decade after decade. Now it's nothing more than a fairytale, its adherents are told to patiently wait in faith until Capitalism finally dies off.

Generation after generation of Marxists have come and gone, waiting for the market system to collapse globally. Instead, it has gradually spread all over the planet, resulting in the greatest uplifting of the global average and median standard of living the planet has ever seen.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#93

Post by Plyphon_ » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 9:14 AM UTC

hammock wrote: post #78

hodgesrm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems more likely that at certain times elites have found they have more in common with each other than the lower classes even across religious or ethnic boundaries. This was certainly true for at least part of the Middle Ages. As Saladin famously said to Guy of Lusignan, "kings do not kill kings." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_of_Lusignan

It's not just "elites" (or I'm not clear on what you mean by that). For example, if you're a cop around dirty cops it's not enough just to not be a snitch. If you are around dirty business they will force you to accept bribes so you are in on the mutually assured destruction. See also gangs, etc.

Pablo Escobar famously employed this tactic - you we're either on his payroll and accepted his cash or you were killed. "plata o plomo" - "silver or lead".

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#94

Post by somebadguy » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 9:36 AM UTC

bodi wrote: post #69

onetimemanytime wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it happens, less in USA and only because FBI will send 500 agents to find the killer. Killing a billionaire or a politician it's hard and risky but that only increases the price. Boom or bust

> FBI will send 500 agents to find the killer. Dont forget that during the peaceful protests of #occupywallstreet the American FBI drafted plans to assasinate every identifiable “leader” of the movement including majority of US citizens. Make no mistake, although some individual FBI agents may still be loyal to their country, as an agency the FBI is treasonous and has been bought and sold to the true power brokers of…

Mate you need to get some professional help.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#95

Post by jacobush » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 9:39 AM UTC

bodi wrote: post #69

onetimemanytime wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it happens, less in USA and only because FBI will send 500 agents to find the killer. Killing a billionaire or a politician it's hard and risky but that only increases the price. Boom or bust

> FBI will send 500 agents to find the killer. Dont forget that during the peaceful protests of #occupywallstreet the American FBI drafted plans to assasinate every identifiable “leader” of the movement including majority of US citizens. Make no mistake, although some individual FBI agents may still be loyal to their country, as an agency the FBI is treasonous and has been bought and sold to the true power brokers of…

I think it has been sold, but only to the extent and the legislature itself has been. Which is still a worrying amount.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#96

Post by jacobush » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 9:40 AM UTC

tlb wrote: post #51

zawerf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed surprising because the profit motive is there and it is not limited to just rival billionaires. Any random guy with enough capital can short the company stock and then place a hit on the CEO. I would expect stuff like that to happen super often but I don't think I have even heard of one real case like this.

One factor is that it’s really hard to find loyal henchmen to perform hits who won’t later blackmail you or squeal to the police in return for a plea bargain. You need an organization to enforce loyalty down a chain of command, like any crime syndicate, and it’s hard to keep that a secret. It’s better to apply your energies to creating things.

Which boils down to that there must be a police worth squeling to.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#97

Post by dig1 » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 9:43 AM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #11

I am kind of surprised billionaires and CEOs don't order each others' killings more often. I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head. So perhaps I have pretty low expectations on what powerful people without morals can do.

Risk management :) It is more effective to burn someone to the ground through legal system (layers, tax reports) than risk everything using something illegal.

This is how large corporations cleans up competitors - either they buy you for the price they set or slowly destroy you through lawsuits.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#98

Post by jacobush » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 9:46 AM UTC

drb91 wrote: post #90

cm2187 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beside moral grounds which you seem to give people little credit for, highly educated people who have been financially successful know how to make money by legal means. The risk benefit ratio is just not worth it particularly in a western country where the chances of getting away with murder are pretty slim (there aren’t many unsolved high profile murders).

I think you are right. As the return on passive market investments go down you should expect to see more of this as the “return” for extralegal tactics will proportionally rise. That said, I think it’s fairly impossible to spot a successful murder as distinct from accident/natural causes. Consider the death of Michael Hastings. Do I think that was murder? Probably not, but there’s no way to firmly put that thought to…

Exactly. "Accidents" can happen. Some families have more of them. You'll never know.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#99

Post by Veen » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 12:27 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #58

bilbo0s wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head... Wait. What? Did this really happen somewhere? (Sorry for the question if it's stupid, I just was unaware of all of this.)

> Did this really happen somewhere? It was in Eastern Europe. I was about 15 at the time based on remembering the friend I called after it happened. Assassinations were pretty common, granted not using bombs like that especially in a busy residential area.

When I lived in Sofia, Bulgaria for a few months, I stayed on the ground floor of an apartment building with a wealthy family on the top floor. The place was constantly surrounded by plain-clothed armed guards: four or five stood outside on the road, more in the lobby. I used to chat with them when I went onto the balcony for a smoke. As a British person, it was quite an eye-opener to see all these guys wandering about with pistols on their belts.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#100

Post by mywittyname » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #74

mywittyname wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it. If you tell a typical senior executive at a company that their actions will lead to the death of 10 million people, their primary concern will be if the company will still make money one the deal, then how they can hide their actions from regulators in order to maximize their return. You might think they would consider whether or not they'd be jailed, but that thought never crosses their mind.

I disagree. Very, very few people, CEOs included have that little disregard for human life. Most CEOs aren't that different from you or I.

I've seen enough evidence of senior leadership of major companies disregarding human life. Car manufactures are particularly bad in this respect, lots of major safety issues in vehicles wouldn't be fixed if not for regulators, since wrongful death lawsuits are cheaper than fixing the issue.

You can look at cigarettes companies for trying to deflect from medical evidence that they cause cancer. Similarly with asbestos and black lung. There's so much evidence that senior leadership at large companies are more than willing to let people die rather than pay out.

Down vote me all you want, but there's plenty of evidence to convince me.