The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire • Hacker News Board

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#61

Post by pathseeker » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 2:06 AM UTC

kasey_junk wrote: post #27

stevewodil wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain what trade? If the CEO dies the stock will go down due to the uncertainty of the future for the company.

Right. Give me literally the orders you put in, with a timeline for the hit. Then explain the price points, liquid capital & risk stats you need to make a particular profit. This is basic stuff for actual short sell trades so I presume it is easy to produce in the “hit a CEO” fund space.

The problem is not the difficulty of the trade, the issue is that the SEC watches for people who profit off of unexpected events like this and unless you have a large track record of trading against companies it's going to put you right at the top of the suspect list.

In your other comments you try to make it seem difficult but when you are in control of a hit at a specific time the risks can be heavily mitigated. The bet is not that the stock will fall, it's that it will underperform it's historic correlated stocks during that time frame.

So the trade looks like this, find a stock with a very high correlation to the target (usually a competitor in the same space). At 9:55AM go long that stock equal dollar value you go short the target stock. This eliminates most risks induced by market-wide or even sector-wide price appreciation. Schedule assassination at 10:00AM. Close out the position when news breaks at 10:15AM or whatever. Even if the attempt fails, you will likely be close to even. Use margin or options to lever up.

The trade is not the hard part of these schemes at all. The hard part is not getting caught because the trades are so easy that the SEC knows exactly what to look for.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#62

Post by throwaway352352 » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 2:09 AM UTC

zawerf wrote: post #21

rdtsc wrote: post #11

I am kind of surprised billionaires and CEOs don't order each others' killings more often. I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head. So perhaps I have pretty low expectations on what powerful people without morals can do.

It is indeed surprising because the profit motive is there and it is not limited to just rival billionaires. Any random guy with enough capital can short the company stock and then place a hit on the CEO. I would expect stuff like that to happen super often but I don't think I have even heard of one real case like this.

If you want to go with a more Marxist interpretation, it's because they all know they can squeeze the lower classes for now. Once capitalism eats up all the growth they will turn on each other and capitalism will eat itself.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#63

Post by democracy » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 2:19 AM UTC

They are doing/attempting it all the time (in 2nd/3rd world countries where the law can bought) this is why there are security firms equipped better than most of the special forces out there. In 1st world countries the law can be fought instead and still it happens (just a recent "New trial for Sydney property developer Ron Medich over murder of former business partner"). But I am certain most of the time it is (like with the regular folks) just hatred and personal revenge for theft/insult rather than "just business".

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#64

Post by geomark » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 2:24 AM UTC

hnaccy wrote: post #19

nostromo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the only thing holding you back from murder lack of funds? If not, why do you think billionaires are any different?

Presumably a billionaire would be better suited to both get away with and profit from such a murder.

In places where the rule of law is weak and corruption is rampant it is easy to literally get away with murder just by paying off the police. But that doesn't protect you from retribution from associates of the people you had killed. You have to either wipe out the entire enemy tribe, or make it look like a very convincing accident, or very convincingly pin it on someone else. Sometimes you combine those with the assistance of the corrupt police.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#65

Post by da02 » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 2:25 AM UTC

Why was he unusual? (I didn't read the article.)

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#66

Post by mywittyname » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 2:25 AM UTC

drb91 wrote: post #46

nostromo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the only thing holding you back from murder lack of funds? If not, why do you think billionaires are any different?

Large companies and those who run them can be both ruthless and amoral. I think it’s a mistake to think the average person’s intuition would apply here.

This is it. If you tell a typical senior executive at a company that their actions will lead to the death of 10 million people, their primary concern will be if the company will still make money one the deal, then how they can hide their actions from regulators in order to maximize their return.

You might think they would consider whether or not they'd be jailed, but that thought never crosses their mind.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#67

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 2:26 AM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #11

I am kind of surprised billionaires and CEOs don't order each others' killings more often. I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head. So perhaps I have pretty low expectations on what powerful people without morals can do.

> I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head.

Wow. What country was that in?

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#68

Post by hodgesrm » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 2:27 AM UTC

jungler wrote: post #50

majos wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is your observation about elites, or your theory? Saying that you've regularly observed elites keeping blackmail on each other in their pockets seems...deserving of elaboration.

Well, if I had observed all of it, I would be implicated, wouldn't I? Most of the material comes second-hand. It's not hard to open up a biography of a powerful figure and dissect it.

It seems more likely that at certain times elites have found they have more in common with each other than the lower classes even across religious or ethnic boundaries.

This was certainly true for at least part of the Middle Ages. As Saladin famously said to Guy of Lusignan, "kings do not kill kings." [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_of_Lusignan

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#69

Post by bodi » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 2:41 AM UTC

onetimemanytime wrote: post #43

bilbo0s wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head... Wait. What? Did this really happen somewhere? (Sorry for the question if it's stupid, I just was unaware of all of this.)

Of course it happens, less in USA and only because FBI will send 500 agents to find the killer. Killing a billionaire or a politician it's hard and risky but that only increases the price. Boom or bust

> FBI will send 500 agents to find the killer.

Dont forget that during the peaceful protests of #occupywallstreet the American FBI drafted plans to assasinate every identifiable “leader” of the movement including majority of US citizens.

Make no mistake, although some individual FBI agents may still be loyal to their country, as an agency the FBI is treasonous and has been bought and sold to the true power brokers of the world for decades.

Re: The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire

#70

Post by dhnsmakala » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 2:53 AM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #11

I am kind of surprised billionaires and CEOs don't order each others' killings more often. I was doing homework one night and the building next door's top 2 floors were blown up because some banker had a hit placed on his head. So perhaps I have pretty low expectations on what powerful people without morals can do.

On the other side of this, I am surprised that people kill each other at all.