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Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

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Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#51

Post by Kaveren »

sgillen wrote: post #40
Kaveren wrote: post #27

I use Firefox with maximum tracking protections and a VPN, so I'm first in line to claim frustration about being forced to solve reCAPTCHAs. But on the other side, it needs to be understood just how important having a CAPTCHA is. The amount of destruction to user experience that bots can cause is sometimes far worse than the pain the CAPTCHA causes. The long chains of reCAPTCHAs annoy me to no end, and I hope a middl…

What exactly do you mean by computational challenges? That seems like the exact kind of thing a bot would be much better at compared to a human.

The idea is that you'd need to make the computational challenge more expensive to solve than any profit that success would have. This is what some DDoS protection services do (e.g. the "checking your browser" messages you might see).

In some scenarios such as spam, the profit per bot action isn't high at all, so this might be feasible. If it's a ticket bot, that wouldn't work at all.

Of course, you're hurting users without good devices, which just sucks.

I haven't really thought too deep into the economics of this, I don't know if it'd work at all. Just a thought.

Edit: Meant to include mobile in there, I don't know how if this would or wouldn't work with this scheme for mid-end+ Android devices or iPhones.

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#53

Post by avip »

robin_reala wrote: post #30

I’m quite proud of GOV.UK for banning CAPTCHAs from government services completely.[1] Have you ever tried to use the ‘accessible’ fallback for ReCAPTCHA? It’s literally impossible (my team had 0% passes trying it over and over again) so by implementing ReCAPTCHA you’re completely blocking an entire set of already disadvantaged users. At the same time, even a normal CAPTCHA is already harder for some users to solve t…

I'd suggest CAPTCHA nay-sayers to come up with alternatives. The implied alternative is, by default, constant abuse, phishery, scrapping, automated login attempts, and DDoS. Which sometimes may be fine, and many times is just not acceptable.

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#54

Post by candiodari »

jetpks wrote: post #5
_asummers wrote: post #2

Hopefully having an ad blocker (uMatrix) doesn't cause it to flag the user like reCAPTCHA v2 does on every single site I go to. I have had to click way too many cars and street signs at this point.

It's in Google's interest to make using an ad blocker as painful as possible.

And yet comparing using one on Youtube with not using one will quickly drive the point home that Google is committed to letting you do that, and doesn't mind losing a few bucks in the process.

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#55

Post by vtail »

In addition to the problems already mentioned (Google collecting more data, Google making ad blocking harder), let me share another issue I have with this: Google is becoming a de-facto gate keeper to your website, turning bots away.

Do you get it? A company whose business model is based on their bots ability to crawl the web will now have more power over other bots.

Brilliant.

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#57

Post by candiodari »

ju-st wrote: post #17

Sorry your citizen score is not high enough to access this website.

That would be a government doing that (I wish we could say just one, but when it comes to restrictions based on "citizen status", it's really not just China), not Google, a private company.

But the big point is Google is not the Chinese state. In fact, one might say, quite accurately, that they're not very friendly.

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#58

Post by vosper »

mattkevan wrote: post #38

As a site owner I know captchas are vital in the battle of not being overwhelmed with spam, but as a user I hate Recaptcha with a passion. Every time I’m asked to identify the motorbikes or traffic lights I feel like google should be paying me a few cents each time for helping train their machine learning algorithms. And on mobile the experience is even worse. Depending on the placement of the captcha box half to a t…

> Every time I’m asked to identify the motorbikes or traffic lights I feel like google should be paying me a few cents each time for helping train their machine learning algorithms.

Over and over again, too. It's completely overdone. I have had screen after screen of images to click on before the Recaptcha is finally happy that I'm human / I've provided enough training data for whatever object they're currently trying to get their cars not to run into.

I wouldn't really object to "of these three pictures, which is a motorbike", but when I'm on my 4th or 5th screen of 9 images each I'm getting pretty annoyed... And they're so slow to fade in, too!

Re: Recaptcha v3: new way to stop bots

#60

Post by wild_preference »

robin_reala wrote: post #30

I’m quite proud of GOV.UK for banning CAPTCHAs from government services completely.[1] Have you ever tried to use the ‘accessible’ fallback for ReCAPTCHA? It’s literally impossible (my team had 0% passes trying it over and over again) so by implementing ReCAPTCHA you’re completely blocking an entire set of already disadvantaged users. At the same time, even a normal CAPTCHA is already harder for some users to solve t…

Cool, that solution works for one of the hegemonic governments of the world.

Now what about about literally every other entity in the world that has a website? The vast majority of which not being a business? Nor serving life-critical documentation to all of the country's disabled?

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