Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin
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Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin
#2Original title: "Google Engineers Are Organizing A Walk Out To Protest The Company’s Protection Of An Alleged Sexual Harasser" (28 characters too long).
Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin
#3Someone with more info please correct me:
But from what I read it sounds as if Google had to pay him the $90MM+, else be sued by him right? Because if they didn't pay him, he'd sue, then they [Google] would have to prove that he [Rubin] acted maliciously (or whatever), which would've been hard (if not impossible) to do, given that the accuser said they were coerced (not forced).
So it seems as if Google's hands were tied legally on this.
Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin
#4Someone with more info please correct me: But from what I read it sounds as if Google had to pay him the $90MM+, else be sued by him right? Because if they didn't pay him, he'd sue, then they [Google] would have to prove that he [Rubin] acted maliciously (or whatever), which would've been hard (if not impossible) to do, given that the accuser said they were coerced (not forced). So it seems as if Google's hands were…
Most issues of social or civil justice typically have at least one conflict of interest. However, individuals are burned at the proverbial stake daily for far less than coercion, and the idea that Google would sweep this under the rug instead of fighting the fight is sickening to some.
Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin
#5Someone with more info please correct me: But from what I read it sounds as if Google had to pay him the $90MM+, else be sued by him right? Because if they didn't pay him, he'd sue, then they [Google] would have to prove that he [Rubin] acted maliciously (or whatever), which would've been hard (if not impossible) to do, given that the accuser said they were coerced (not forced). So it seems as if Google's hands were…
The cost of fighting it in court may be far less than the cost of the public/employee backlash.
Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin
#6Someone with more info please correct me: But from what I read it sounds as if Google had to pay him the $90MM+, else be sued by him right? Because if they didn't pay him, he'd sue, then they [Google] would have to prove that he [Rubin] acted maliciously (or whatever), which would've been hard (if not impossible) to do, given that the accuser said they were coerced (not forced). So it seems as if Google's hands were…
The cost of fighting it in court may be far less than the cost of the public/employee backlash.
The problem here is the "it costs more to do the right thing" is a bad argument.
If you have a serial harasser, who is just paid off to leave quietly, then you just ensure that he gets to go off and do the same thing again. And be richer.
How about instead of giving him $90 million, you give that to his victims in exchange for them not making claims against him? The result is approximately the same, but at least you're giving money to the victim rather than the criminal.
Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin
#7Someone with more info please correct me: But from what I read it sounds as if Google had to pay him the $90MM+, else be sued by him right? Because if they didn't pay him, he'd sue, then they [Google] would have to prove that he [Rubin] acted maliciously (or whatever), which would've been hard (if not impossible) to do, given that the accuser said they were coerced (not forced). So it seems as if Google's hands were…
Furthermore, correct me if I misread, but what he did wrong was have consensual sexual relations with a subordinate, right? And then he was fired for it (which he should be). And they protected him how? Paying him the severance package he was owed?
I'm not following if that's all correct.
Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
The cost of fighting it in court may be far less than the cost of the public/employee backlash.
The problem here is the "it costs more to do the right thing" is a bad argument. If you have a serial harasser, who is just paid off to leave quietly, then you just ensure that he gets to go off and do the same thing again. And be richer. How about instead of giving him $90 million, you give that to his victims in exchange for them not making claims against him? The result is approximately the same, but at least you'…
I completely agree. My comment was actually saying I think it is often cheaper to do the right thing (even if it means spending more money initially).
Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin
#9Someone with more info please correct me: But from what I read it sounds as if Google had to pay him the $90MM+, else be sued by him right? Because if they didn't pay him, he'd sue, then they [Google] would have to prove that he [Rubin] acted maliciously (or whatever), which would've been hard (if not impossible) to do, given that the accuser said they were coerced (not forced). So it seems as if Google's hands were…
From the original NY Times article [1]:
> Google could have fired Mr. Rubin and paid him little to nothing on the way out. [...]
> When Google fires lower-level employees, it typically marches them out immediately and pays little, if any, severance. But for senior executives, Google weighs other factors, said former executives. A wrongful termination lawsuit could mean unwanted media attention for Google and the victims of a misconduct case, with a loss resulting in significant damages.
It doesn't say explicitly, but it sounds like they didn't have a legal obligation to pay him; rather, they did so to avoid the possibility of a lawsuit or bad press.
What they definitely didn't have to do was this:
> Afterward, Google invested in Playground Global, a venture firm Mr. Rubin started six months after leaving the company.
It's one thing to pay severance if you don't think you can win an unlawful termination lawsuit, but it's another entirely to invest in that person's next venture after you're absolved of any legal obligation to them.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-...
Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin
#10And then, after the walk out, they will return to their desks and continue working for the company. If you want a walk out to matter, you leave... and don't come back for free food in the employee cafeteria right after.