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How to run a calm workplace: review of Basecamp's book

economist.com

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Re: How to run a calm workplace: review of Basecamp's book

#21

Post by woolvalley »

ppeetteerr wrote: post #2

I read the book and I enjoyed it. It still feels like a recruitment tool for Basecamp in the same way all "self help" books just seem to describe what the author does well, rather than how to deal own with personal difficulties. If you happen to have a company like theirs (<100 employees, ability to work remotely, profitable), this book will help better align your team's efforts and create a good work environment. If…

At this point basecamp has a bit of a 'broken clock is right twice a day feel' that drives a content marketing machine for their SMB product. This is a classic one: https://signalvnoise.com/posts/2585-facebook-is-not-worth-33...

What basecamp is promoting is totally fine, but at this point you have to recognize that bootstrap / small biz style vs. VC style biz are two different kinds with their own tradeoffs and the emotionalism in the articles are not that necessary.

But the emotionalism behind the articles is probably what makes the content stick, as people frustrated with their current work environment get inspired by SvN blog articles to start their own SMB and buy basecamp products to organize their business.

Re: How to run a calm workplace: review of Basecamp's book

#22

Post by johnmwilliams »

sulam wrote: post #9

I found it interesting (just started reading it, so this is near the beginning) that they have no employees in the SF Bay Area. Since I assume they are using Ruby and RoR (heh), it seems like there must be some filtering function removing the many talented developers expert in their stack from their recruiting pool. It could be as simple as salary (maybe they aren't willing to pay "market-rate" for SV) or it could be…

I work at Basecamp. From our handbook [1]:

"Basecamp pays at the top 10% for our industry at San Francisco salary levels, regardless of where an employee lives. The comparison data is provided by a company called Radford that polls compensation data from all the major companies in our industry and plenty of our smaller peers as well. Because we don't pay bonuses, we match our base compensation to the base + bonus of our peer group."

[1]: https://github.com/basecamp/handbook/blob/master/making-a-ca...

Re: How to run a calm workplace: review of Basecamp's book

#23

Post by xkjkls »

woolvalley wrote: post #21
ppeetteerr wrote: post #2

I read the book and I enjoyed it. It still feels like a recruitment tool for Basecamp in the same way all "self help" books just seem to describe what the author does well, rather than how to deal own with personal difficulties. If you happen to have a company like theirs (<100 employees, ability to work remotely, profitable), this book will help better align your team's efforts and create a good work environment. If…

At this point basecamp has a bit of a 'broken clock is right twice a day feel' that drives a content marketing machine for their SMB product. This is a classic one: https://signalvnoise.com/posts/2585-facebook-is-not-worth-33... What basecamp is promoting is totally fine, but at this point you have to recognize that bootstrap / small biz style vs. VC style biz are two different kinds with their own tradeoffs and the…

Damn, that post aged badly.

Yeah, I think there needs to be books that are honest about the tradeoffs of running a business different ways, rather than espousing that "this is the way to do things". Ben Horowitz's "The Hard Thing About Hard Things" is the only one I know that really claimed that sometimes things call for relaxed management and sometimes things call for a maniacal death march.

Re: How to run a calm workplace: review of Basecamp's book

#24

Post by sulam »

ghostly_s wrote: post #19
sulam wrote: post #9

I found it interesting (just started reading it, so this is near the beginning) that they have no employees in the SF Bay Area. Since I assume they are using Ruby and RoR (heh), it seems like there must be some filtering function removing the many talented developers expert in their stack from their recruiting pool. It could be as simple as salary (maybe they aren't willing to pay "market-rate" for SV) or it could be…

Why would they be willing to pay the hyper-inflated "market-rate" for SV employees when they are optimized for remote workers, so being located in the Bay has no value to them?

I'm not arguing they should. Just proposing a possible answer that would be reasonable.

Re: How to run a calm workplace: review of Basecamp's book

#26

Post by ppeetteerr »

woolvalley wrote: post #21
ppeetteerr wrote: post #2

I read the book and I enjoyed it. It still feels like a recruitment tool for Basecamp in the same way all "self help" books just seem to describe what the author does well, rather than how to deal own with personal difficulties. If you happen to have a company like theirs (<100 employees, ability to work remotely, profitable), this book will help better align your team's efforts and create a good work environment. If…

At this point basecamp has a bit of a 'broken clock is right twice a day feel' that drives a content marketing machine for their SMB product. This is a classic one: https://signalvnoise.com/posts/2585-facebook-is-not-worth-33... What basecamp is promoting is totally fine, but at this point you have to recognize that bootstrap / small biz style vs. VC style biz are two different kinds with their own tradeoffs and the…

It reminds me of Joel on Software where Spolsky claims that web technology and web apps will not replace desktop apps.

Re: How to run a calm workplace: review of Basecamp's book

#27

Post by sitkack »

motohagiography wrote: post #15

Sounds like a lovely target for private equity. If you own a company that can afford to do this and want an out, ping me to ghostwrite your self help no-seller and we can get the jackals circling.

That is morally reprehensible and very smart. Find all the companies that have such great margins that they can treat their employees well and gut them for temporary gains.

What about the opposite? Find companies that are massively over staffed and duplicate their product with 100x less people?

Re: How to run a calm workplace: review of Basecamp's book

#28

Post by michaelbuckbee »

ppeetteerr wrote: post #2

I read the book and I enjoyed it. It still feels like a recruitment tool for Basecamp in the same way all "self help" books just seem to describe what the author does well, rather than how to deal own with personal difficulties. If you happen to have a company like theirs (<100 employees, ability to work remotely, profitable), this book will help better align your team's efforts and create a good work environment. If…

I used to work for a VC funded startup that was full on Silicon Valley (HBO) style nuts. Wacky group living. CEO that thought he was reincarnated Steve Jobs. Just insane amounts of what I can only describe as "thrashing" as people tried to figure out what to work on, etc.

I'm now working at an enterprise software company in the marketing group and it's "calm" in the sense that Basecamp uses the term. Everyone's a professional. Everyone just does their job. Team is mostly remote.

It's phenomenal how much faster in terms of growth the enterprise job moves. Simply because there aren't any "performative metrics". Nobody cares if you show up early and leave late because the metric we're held to tie back to the business. Because we're making actual money we can do more growth experiments. Because we have proven we can do this, we aren't mired down in bureaucracy (CEO and whoever his advisor was that week approval) and weird turf wars between departments.

It's just calm, competent execution 5 days a week, 8 hours a day. The company certainly isn't Basecamp, but the lessons and ethos still work.

Re: How to run a calm workplace: review of Basecamp's book

#30

Post by Apocryphon »

ppeetteerr wrote: post #26
woolvalley wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point basecamp has a bit of a 'broken clock is right twice a day feel' that drives a content marketing machine for their SMB product. This is a classic one: https://signalvnoise.com/posts/2585-facebook-is-not-worth-33... What basecamp is promoting is totally fine, but at this point you have to recognize that bootstrap / small biz style vs. VC style biz are two different kinds with their own tradeoffs and the…

It reminds me of Joel on Software where Spolsky claims that web technology and web apps will not replace desktop apps.

It's funny how Fog Creek Software is similarly based in NYC. Silicon Valley folks, tired of the breakneck VC-bloated striverism of the city, seek the homespun wisdom from a simpler age and small companies.
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