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Is HN only about saying nice things about everything?

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Re: Is HN only about saying nice things about everything?

#31

Post by volida »

mquander wrote: post #24
volida wrote: post #17

If you are getting downvoted continuesly, why don't you take it as a sign you are indeed say something wrong? from your comments: "I found the UI unappealing and the heavy use of rotation effects amateurish." edit: that is mean, although because it was about Microsoft/Windows Phone 7 as a whole, there is almost zero direct effect on the people who worked on it, and therefore may reduce it's meaness factor by 0.001%,…

It's not that it's mean, it's that it's content-free. If I wrote "I think the Windows Phone 7 UI looks cool and the rotation effects are awesome" then I hope you would downvote it, because that is a trashy comment. (The real comment in question had 4 more lines, but they were all equally vapid.) You have a specific comment about some identifiable aspect of the rotation effects? OK. You have evidence that the new wave…

I agree. But, the vaqueness is what elivates it to mean status. It contributed zero to the understanding of his claims, therefore leaving the negative energy stand out.

Also, that type of comment you refer to, gets usually downvoted on HN.

Re: Is HN only about saying nice things about everything?

#32

Post by Locke1689 »

Towle_ wrote: post #21

This is one of several diseases in HackerNews. There's a whole spectrum of ways to disagree, all of which have value in the right situation. Here, a good portion of that spectrum has been lobbed off in the name of niceness and nothing more. Is it worth it? Decide for yourself. I say nay. Bonus disease: PG worship. Don't get me wrong, he's a brilliant guy; we're all here (directly or indirectly) because of him. But it…

I'm not sure it's exactly a disease. I'd rather call it a blindspot.

On the topic of "PG worship" I think, yes, perhaps the constant extolment goes a little to far. I think this is a blindspot of HN simply because most of us are pretty polite. One doesn't go into a host's house and take a dump on the floor, if I may. Sometimes I feel it may be rude to criticize Paul in this forum for a similar reason.

Re: Is HN only about saying nice things about everything?

#33

Post by Mz »

joshuacc wrote: post #30
paulnelligan wrote: post #27

y'know a few downvotes are not the end of the world either. The most downvotes I've ever seen anyone get never exceeds 4. I've seen hundreds of upvotes for some submissions. So if you're worried about the karma, just post something interesting. Guaranteed you'll get your karma back AND still have the freedom to criticize something if you feel the need.

That's because the publicly displayed score for any comment bottoms out at -4 in order to prevent a "dogpile" effect. Every downvote still deducts karma, though it may not be publicized in the comment's score.

Makes me wonder what the effect would be of doing the same sort of thing for upvotes.

Re: Is HN only about saying nice things about everything?

#34

Post by jamesteow »

mquander wrote: post #24
volida wrote: post #17

If you are getting downvoted continuesly, why don't you take it as a sign you are indeed say something wrong? from your comments: "I found the UI unappealing and the heavy use of rotation effects amateurish." edit: that is mean, although because it was about Microsoft/Windows Phone 7 as a whole, there is almost zero direct effect on the people who worked on it, and therefore may reduce it's meaness factor by 0.001%,…

It's not that it's mean, it's that it's content-free. If I wrote "I think the Windows Phone 7 UI looks cool and the rotation effects are awesome" then I hope you would downvote it, because that is a trashy comment. (The real comment in question had 4 more lines, but they were all equally vapid.) You have a specific comment about some identifiable aspect of the rotation effects? OK. You have evidence that the new wave…

How is that a trashy comment? You're affirming that they did something right which is a plus. Not everyone has the means to fully explain why they like or dislike something. Sometimes its just a gut feeling. Or sometimes it doesn't need an explanation.

Re: Is HN only about saying nice things about everything?

#35

Post by InclinedPlane »

I just took a glance at my recent comments. Most of them are nominally negative (by about 2:1). Most of them have several upvotes, none of them appear to be downvoted.

People on HN enjoy criticism just fine, but they don't particularly enjoy standing next to a spigot of feces. The problem is that vitriol and excessive emotion skews debate. It makes the debate about the emotion itself, rather than about the issue at hand. When people get into a shouting match their brains shut down and people stop arguing rationally (the fight-or-flight response kicks in, blood starts being withdrawn from the extremities and some of the higher brain-function areas, the reptile brain starts taking over, and it becomes much more difficult to admit being wrong or that the other person might be right). This sort of thing is not helpful if the goal is productive rational debate.

Re: Is HN only about saying nice things about everything?

#36

Post by brk »

To me it seems that HN has mostly been about content and thoughtful presentation. Not all of my comments are always happy unicorn rainbows, but if I'm presenting an alternative or unpopular opinion I (try) to at least explain my reasoning and logic.

Lame jabs, cheap shots, bad jokes, and vapid comments DO seem to get rightly pounded down.

Re: Is HN only about saying nice things about everything?

#38

Post by mquander »

jamesteow wrote: post #34
mquander wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that it's mean, it's that it's content-free. If I wrote "I think the Windows Phone 7 UI looks cool and the rotation effects are awesome" then I hope you would downvote it, because that is a trashy comment. (The real comment in question had 4 more lines, but they were all equally vapid.) You have a specific comment about some identifiable aspect of the rotation effects? OK. You have evidence that the new wave…

How is that a trashy comment? You're affirming that they did something right which is a plus. Not everyone has the means to fully explain why they like or dislike something. Sometimes its just a gut feeling. Or sometimes it doesn't need an explanation.

If it were in response to a person on HN (or a Microsoft employee!) who was looking for feedback, I might agree with you. There's a place for simple praise. But what's the use of affirming your love for the new huge product of a big corporation somewhere?

Anyone can say whether they like or dislike something, and if that's an acceptable contribution in itself, everyone will. Welcome to Gizmodo and Engadget. The end result is that more substantiative comments and comments from actual experts are covered in goop.

Re: Is HN only about saying nice things about everything?

#39

Post by Towle_ »

Locke1689 wrote: post #32
Towle_ wrote: post #21

This is one of several diseases in HackerNews. There's a whole spectrum of ways to disagree, all of which have value in the right situation. Here, a good portion of that spectrum has been lobbed off in the name of niceness and nothing more. Is it worth it? Decide for yourself. I say nay. Bonus disease: PG worship. Don't get me wrong, he's a brilliant guy; we're all here (directly or indirectly) because of him. But it…

I'm not sure it's exactly a disease. I'd rather call it a blindspot. On the topic of "PG worship" I think, yes, perhaps the constant extolment goes a little to far. I think this is a blindspot of HN simply because most of us are pretty polite. One doesn't go into a host's house and take a dump on the floor, if I may. Sometimes I feel it may be rude to criticize Paul in this forum for a similar reason.

I feel that mindset runs contrary to the mission of the site itself.

Criticism is not impolite. In fact, it's the direct opposite. Criticism is a show of respect. You criticize someone when you care about them, when you desire their betterment and you respect them enough to be confident that they will not react negatively to the idea that someone else may know better than they do.

Re: Is HN only about saying nice things about everything?

#40

Post by troutwine »

DjDarkman wrote: post #10
SandB0x wrote: post #8

There's criticism and there's negativity. You seem to be confusing these two things. You can put your point across without snarky comments like: "Vertical list of applications??? Microsoft what have you been smoking?" (As we're quoting rap lyrics today) I think that you'll be doing just fine if you relax a little.

I may be alone in this, but I like expressing my thoughts/feelings, as a matter of fact, most of the time I want to make it really clear that what I say is just my the way I see it. Do I go a little bit too far with it? Maybe.

I grew up in a blunt, German family. Very straight forward, often crude. I am, as a result, one to speak my mind. Effective criticism is best delivered from a high position: hyperbole and mistakes like "my the way I" debase an otherwise salient point.

A good insult is like a fine, dry wine; it is bitter and refined. You come across in your comment history as a dullard, enamored of his own ability to shout at crowds.

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