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US election system reveals frightening vulnerabilities at almost every level

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Re: US election system reveals frightening vulnerabilities at almost every level

#121

Post by tracker1 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #113
fromthestart wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is that the state and federal ID system is so fucked up that it disenfranchises voters. Until that system is fixed, you can't use it for voting. I really think this is a giant myth. You're expecting me to believe that these minorities are living such horrid, opressed lives that they slave away every single day, and can't find a friend with a ride, or band together to make a group trip to get registered o…

No matter how you slice it, it amounts to “the poorest people can’t vote”. Maybe you don’t even have bus fare. Maybe your car can’t make it 90 miles to the nearest DMV. Also you’re really dismissing the fact that some people literally work all the hours the DMV is open. And when those people have their one or two days off, there’s other crap they have to get done. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have voter ID... I’m just…

If you're so bad off that you can't make it to a place to get an Id, then you're probably too poor to make it to a place to register to vote too. There's no reason that state issued Ids can't be done via mobile platforms.

Also, I'm not saying it doesn't disenfranchise voters, but the numbers are so incredibly small that it's statistically insignificant.

Re: US election system reveals frightening vulnerabilities at almost every level

#122

Post by stephengillie »

Armisael16 wrote: post #102
stephengillie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bad ideas directly impact only ~2% of the country. If only populations were so evenly distributed. 1/2 of Americans live east of the Mississippi, on 1/3 of the Continental US, and about 1/2 of the rest live on the West Coast. The mideastern states have very few residents.

What are the mideastern states? If you mean the Midwest then I regret to inform you that Illinois, Ohio, and Michigan are all in the top 10 most populous states.

Yes, those 3 Mideastern states are east of the Mississippi.

They're in the middle of the continent, and east of my state, so they are mideast to me. Not to be confused with Arabia, east Mediterranean, and Persian gulf.

Re: US election system reveals frightening vulnerabilities at almost every level

#123

Post by torstenvl »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #120
Muromec wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain for non-americans what's the actual problem with havinf ID in US? Is it like most people only have driver license and ones who don't have a car (because they are poor) don't need one or it's more complicated? Where I'm from everybody is required by law to have one from the age of 14 and gets it for free for the first time. You just can't have anything done without id and tax identification code…

One aspect I'm not seeing mentioned in other comments: ID is currently handled at the state level. A lot of Americans object to having a federal ID and if you required ID for non local elections (federal elections -- ie countrywide or national elections, like voting for the President), then you will run into problems because there is no standard national ID. If you required ID at the federal level, then you have to d…

There are no federal elections by citizens in the United States. Every election is state-wide or lower.

Re: US election system reveals frightening vulnerabilities at almost every level

#124

Post by tracker1 »

revscat wrote: post #64
jcrawfordor wrote: post #20

My county of over 600k people has a Bureau of Elections staff of five, and none of them are really technical people, they just do basic work on the machines and train the temp staff hired for elections. They rely on a contractor to handle just about every aspect of the technology, including the pollbook system, and that company is a larger operation but still the kind of operation where I've heard the elections staff…

Why is it so taboo to talk about the fact that a significant portion of the political ruling class is eager to actively subvert democracy, no matter what technical solutions are available? The Republican Party does not care about electoral fairness, whether it’s papwr, electronic, or a physical show of hands. It is democracy itself they are opposed to, and will continue to amass power until bloodshed forces change. P…

Come on... it's not just Republicans... just look at voter fraud in general, there's plenty all around. Including dead and never-existed people voting. And I'm not even talking about the 1900's, I'm talking in every election cycle, including current.

Re: US election system reveals frightening vulnerabilities at almost every level

#125

Post by fromthestart »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #113
fromthestart wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is that the state and federal ID system is so fucked up that it disenfranchises voters. Until that system is fixed, you can't use it for voting. I really think this is a giant myth. You're expecting me to believe that these minorities are living such horrid, opressed lives that they slave away every single day, and can't find a friend with a ride, or band together to make a group trip to get registered o…

No matter how you slice it, it amounts to “the poorest people can’t vote”. Maybe you don’t even have bus fare. Maybe your car can’t make it 90 miles to the nearest DMV. Also you’re really dismissing the fact that some people literally work all the hours the DMV is open. And when those people have their one or two days off, there’s other crap they have to get done. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have voter ID... I’m just…

>Maybe you don’t even have bus fare. Maybe your car can’t make it 90 miles to the nearest DMV.

>Also you’re really dismissing the fact that some people literally work all the hours the DMV is open. And when those people have their one or two days off, there’s other crap they have to get done.

For an entire year? You can't scrape together $20 and find a free afternoon once or twice in a decade? What percentage of the non homeless population actually lives this way and actually lives too far from a DMV?

Re: US election system reveals frightening vulnerabilities at almost every level

#126

Post by DoreenMichele »

torstenvl wrote: post #123
DoreenMichele wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One aspect I'm not seeing mentioned in other comments: ID is currently handled at the state level. A lot of Americans object to having a federal ID and if you required ID for non local elections (federal elections -- ie countrywide or national elections, like voting for the President), then you will run into problems because there is no standard national ID. If you required ID at the federal level, then you have to d…

There are no federal elections by citizens in the United States. Every election is state-wide or lower.

I get that. But there are federal positions we vote on, such as the president and senators and representatives in the federal government, as opposed to representatives in our state governments.

Re: US election system reveals frightening vulnerabilities at almost every level

#127

Post by sixothree »

stouset wrote: post #75
adjkant wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it should also be a requirement to show a state or federal ID before you can cast your vote. I'm always floored when people try to defend voting without requiring any kind of identity verification. In Puerto Rico you're required to register ahead of time for a voter ID and you must present it in order to vote. If Puerto Rico, which is drastically poorer than all 50 states, can pull this off without it being…

The same proponents of stronger voter ID laws are also the same people who are incomprehensibly paranoid about the notion of a national ID system.

And are also the same ones who do not want you to be able to register to vote at the same place you procure those IDs.

Re: US election system reveals frightening vulnerabilities at almost every level

#128

Post by tareqak »

fromthestart wrote: post #125
erikpukinskis wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter how you slice it, it amounts to “the poorest people can’t vote”. Maybe you don’t even have bus fare. Maybe your car can’t make it 90 miles to the nearest DMV. Also you’re really dismissing the fact that some people literally work all the hours the DMV is open. And when those people have their one or two days off, there’s other crap they have to get done. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have voter ID... I’m just…

>Maybe you don’t even have bus fare. Maybe your car can’t make it 90 miles to the nearest DMV. >Also you’re really dismissing the fact that some people literally work all the hours the DMV is open. And when those people have their one or two days off, there’s other crap they have to get done. For an entire year? You can't scrape together $20 and find a free afternoon once or twice in a decade? What percentage of the…

$20 + the lost wages spent traveling to the DMV, filling out the necessary paperwork, waiting in line, having your application processed, then traveling back is actually a lot of money for some people. And the above is just the best case, delays can happen because the applicant forgot to bring in some kind of evidence or another, which usually ends up meaning the entire afternoon is effectively wasted.

Re: US election system reveals frightening vulnerabilities at almost every level

#129

Post by adjkant »

tracker1 wrote: post #121
erikpukinskis wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter how you slice it, it amounts to “the poorest people can’t vote”. Maybe you don’t even have bus fare. Maybe your car can’t make it 90 miles to the nearest DMV. Also you’re really dismissing the fact that some people literally work all the hours the DMV is open. And when those people have their one or two days off, there’s other crap they have to get done. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have voter ID... I’m just…

If you're so bad off that you can't make it to a place to get an Id, then you're probably too poor to make it to a place to register to vote too. There's no reason that state issued Ids can't be done via mobile platforms. Also, I'm not saying it doesn't disenfranchise voters, but the numbers are so incredibly small that it's statistically insignificant.

.5% of the entire US population is homeless, most of which are practically prohibited by law to obtain a valid ID. That's not statistically insignificant at all.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...

Re: US election system reveals frightening vulnerabilities at almost every level

#130

Post by reaperducer »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #60

Paper ballots are the superior method of voting. It makes it nigh impossible to cheat at a large scale and there's a paper trail verified by multiple adversarial parties. It's also way more reliable due to the sheer simplicity of the system. For a system as important as our elections we should take every precaution possible. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I don't even trust mail-in ballots. I'm perfectly content to fill out…

Paper ballots are the superior method of voting

Based on first-hand experience, Al Gore disagrees.

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