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Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally

trackinghappiness.com

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Re: Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally

#11

Post by esotericn »

lhnz wrote: post #8
esotericn wrote: post #3

I don't think anyone contests the fact that money increases happiness _up to a point_. Once you have full financial security though, it becomes quite nonlinear. Outside of bonkers areas, 1 million NW gets you retirement. 10 million NW gets you that plus... toys. It's a major reason why taxation should focus on the rich (as opposed to the 'well off' e.g. high incomes). They really will not notice it aside from ideolog…

Are you speaking from personal experience or is this just what you've heard elsewhere? I've still not reached the point where more money hasn't increased my happiness, however I'm definitely making far more than an above-average wage in London. I think a great number of people could be happier with more money assuming they have good ideas on how they can spend their money to improve their lives.

From personal experience.

The step change for me was financial independence.

It's not about income, but wealth.

A basic example - the difference between a 50K a year job and a 200K a year job is enormous if you have no wealth.

If you are FI, then other factors like the nature of the work, the hours, the location and so on are far more important.

Because once you're there, it becomes clear that money has far less value than time - you only need enough of it to do the things you want to do (of course, if the things you want to do require a lot of money, that's a possible case...)

Re: Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally

#12

Post by vvanders »

lhnz wrote: post #8
esotericn wrote: post #3

I don't think anyone contests the fact that money increases happiness _up to a point_. Once you have full financial security though, it becomes quite nonlinear. Outside of bonkers areas, 1 million NW gets you retirement. 10 million NW gets you that plus... toys. It's a major reason why taxation should focus on the rich (as opposed to the 'well off' e.g. high incomes). They really will not notice it aside from ideolog…

Are you speaking from personal experience or is this just what you've heard elsewhere? I've still not reached the point where more money hasn't increased my happiness, however I'm definitely making far more than an above-average wage in London. I think a great number of people could be happier with more money assuming they have good ideas on how they can spend their money to improve their lives.

DHH hits this pretty well, I don't have the exact link off hand but the difference for him from tons of net worth was not nearly what he was expecting. Once your basic needs are met community + fufilling work are generally what has an outsized impact.

Re: Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally

#13

Post by ur-whale »

Is this really a study where there is exactly one subject?

He can gather another million data point about a single subject (himself), that's never going to prove the point.

At the very best, he'll prove money makes him happy. And probably not even that, given how many factors might affect his own life and moods.

Re: Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally

#14

Post by Simulacra »

I think it truly depends on the person. Give me $10 million and I will be very happy for the rest of my life as I indulge every hobby I’ve ever wanted, and build concrete security for myself and my family. I think it truly depends on the person. Give me $10 million and I will be very happy for the rest of my life as I indulge every hubby I’ve ever wanted, and build concrete security for myself and my family. The philosophical questions that money cannot buy you friends in love, but that Mrs. the point of people who don’t necessarily need that in their lives.

Re: Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally

#15

Post by amoitnga »

I think it's a well-established fact that going from poor to middle class makes a huge difference, from middle to top makes difference too, but not as big.

5 years ago I was a carpenter in New York making some 30k a year, I was miserable. I wanted a different job, but not only because of a better paycheck, but also a kind of work I'd do, the way I'd spend my days.

Now I'm a web developer and having that background really puts things into perspective. That perspective makes me pretty darn happy. My point is this:

It's an equation with multiple variables, where 'money' is only one of 'em. For me it's

M + T + Q = H

M = Money

T = Amount of time you spend to get it

Q = quality of that time. Sure you can make big buck but do something you're absolutely horrified by, something that makes you miserable... Or you make a pretty modest paycheck, but enjoy every minute of it.

Of course, there is more to it, but it conveys the idea: Money affects how you feel, but there is more to that.

Re: Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally

#16

Post by coldtea »

Kaveren wrote: post #7
esotericn wrote: post #3

I don't think anyone contests the fact that money increases happiness _up to a point_. Once you have full financial security though, it becomes quite nonlinear. Outside of bonkers areas, 1 million NW gets you retirement. 10 million NW gets you that plus... toys. It's a major reason why taxation should focus on the rich (as opposed to the 'well off' e.g. high incomes). They really will not notice it aside from ideolog…

Taxes already do focus on the wealthy with progressive taxes (in many countries), though. From an American perspective, the top federal income tax bracket is 37%. The top state income tax rate can be anywhere from 0% to 12.3% (California), so in total you can pay up to 49.3% of a potion of your income in taxes. In America, the top 1% paid 45.7% of total income tax in 2015 [1] (earning 17% of "expanded cash income"),…

>Taxes already do focus on the wealthy with progressive taxes (in many countries), though.

The tax system provides tons of ways the wealthy can skip taxes, progressive or not.

Re: Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally

#17

Post by stephengillie »

amoitnga wrote: post #15

I think it's a well-established fact that going from poor to middle class makes a huge difference, from middle to top makes difference too, but not as big. 5 years ago I was a carpenter in New York making some 30k a year, I was miserable. I wanted a different job, but not only because of a better paycheck, but also a kind of work I'd do, the way I'd spend my days. Now I'm a web developer and having that background re…

This is a great argument against working unpaid overtime. Unpaid overtime work holds M constant while reducing T - recomputing your M and T cause M to reduce at a rate of 2.5% per hour worked past 40. And your Q might reduce as well.

Re: Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally

#18

Post by coldtea »

lhnz wrote: post #8
esotericn wrote: post #3

I don't think anyone contests the fact that money increases happiness _up to a point_. Once you have full financial security though, it becomes quite nonlinear. Outside of bonkers areas, 1 million NW gets you retirement. 10 million NW gets you that plus... toys. It's a major reason why taxation should focus on the rich (as opposed to the 'well off' e.g. high incomes). They really will not notice it aside from ideolog…

Are you speaking from personal experience or is this just what you've heard elsewhere? I've still not reached the point where more money hasn't increased my happiness, however I'm definitely making far more than an above-average wage in London. I think a great number of people could be happier with more money assuming they have good ideas on how they can spend their money to improve their lives.

>I've still not reached the point where more money hasn't increased my happiness

Depends on the persons age and maturity level too. At some point shiny new cars and other trinkets are not really what makes you happy...

Besides, if you're making a wage (whether way above average or not) you might not still be quite that independent that more money makes no difference (or draw your happiness from competing in the race)...

Re: Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally

#19

Post by vageli »

coldtea wrote: post #18
lhnz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you speaking from personal experience or is this just what you've heard elsewhere? I've still not reached the point where more money hasn't increased my happiness, however I'm definitely making far more than an above-average wage in London. I think a great number of people could be happier with more money assuming they have good ideas on how they can spend their money to improve their lives.

> I've still not reached the point where more money hasn't increased my happiness Depends on the persons age and maturity level too. At some point shiny new cars and other trinkets are not really what makes you happy... Besides, if you're making a wage (whether way above average or not) you might not still be quite that independent that more money makes no difference (or draw your happiness from competing in the race…

I agree completely. I think much joy can be found in new experiences, though, which money certainly enables.

Re: Money can buy happiness, but not unconditionally

#20

Post by da02 »

lhnz wrote: post #8
esotericn wrote: post #3

I don't think anyone contests the fact that money increases happiness _up to a point_. Once you have full financial security though, it becomes quite nonlinear. Outside of bonkers areas, 1 million NW gets you retirement. 10 million NW gets you that plus... toys. It's a major reason why taxation should focus on the rich (as opposed to the 'well off' e.g. high incomes). They really will not notice it aside from ideolog…

Are you speaking from personal experience or is this just what you've heard elsewhere? I've still not reached the point where more money hasn't increased my happiness, however I'm definitely making far more than an above-average wage in London. I think a great number of people could be happier with more money assuming they have good ideas on how they can spend their money to improve their lives.

If it's not too personal, how many hours per week do you work? How many works of vacation per year?
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