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In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

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Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#91

Post by deialtrous »

cbg0 wrote: post #31
pentae wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, if you'd swapped out the word "Caucasian" for "African American" your post would be downvoted and you'd be called a racist. But because we're DEFINITELY not racist mentioning you targeted white people is totally fine in 2018.

As long as this is andrew_'s personal experience, I don't see why I'd call him a racist regardless of the race he profiled the most. He even goes on to explain that there's a good reason for targeting white teenagers: they were the most likely to steal something, so they weren't targeted because they're white, they were targeted because they proved to be the highest risk. Now if andrew_ had started generalizing, like…

>so they weren't targeted because they're white, they were targeted because they proved to be the highest risk.

Which is precisely why blacks are "profiled" or "targetted" even by computers. And yet the media tells us this is because "AI is racist" and because of the "legacy of colonialism" and absurd nonsense like that.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#92

Post by gonehome »

deialtrous wrote: post #91
cbg0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as this is andrew_'s personal experience, I don't see why I'd call him a racist regardless of the race he profiled the most. He even goes on to explain that there's a good reason for targeting white teenagers: they were the most likely to steal something, so they weren't targeted because they're white, they were targeted because they proved to be the highest risk. Now if andrew_ had started generalizing, like…

>so they weren't targeted because they're white, they were targeted because they proved to be the highest risk. Which is precisely why blacks are "profiled" or "targetted" even by computers. And yet the media tells us this is because "AI is racist" and because of the "legacy of colonialism" and absurd nonsense like that.

That’s a jump that is a problem.

The issue is that the pattern matching reinforces the problem based on race when race is not the cause. There are lots of historical reasons someone could be be a bad credit risk for example, but it isn’t because they’re black or some other race.

You want the algorithm to account for cause not correlated patterns that reinforce racial divisions and then perpetuate the inequality.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#93

Post by dbattaglia »

cbg0 wrote: post #31
pentae wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, if you'd swapped out the word "Caucasian" for "African American" your post would be downvoted and you'd be called a racist. But because we're DEFINITELY not racist mentioning you targeted white people is totally fine in 2018.

As long as this is andrew_'s personal experience, I don't see why I'd call him a racist regardless of the race he profiled the most. He even goes on to explain that there's a good reason for targeting white teenagers: they were the most likely to steal something, so they weren't targeted because they're white, they were targeted because they proved to be the highest risk. Now if andrew_ had started generalizing, like…

Reading the OP I got the impression he was talking more about profiling by age than race. Teenagers shoplift, it’s a pretty common thing for bored suburban kids. I’m assuming he was in a predominantly white area so white teens were the most likely offenders. But of course I’m extrapolating a bit here, maybe I’m totally off base here and coloring with my own suburban youth experience.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#94

Post by expathacker »

jowsie wrote: post #82
expathacker wrote: post #63

This reminds me somewhat of a non-profit retail store in San Francisco where I volunteered to pay off a pile of parking tickets. The store itself sold local artisanal housewares to help support a number of local AIDS/HIV-related charities. What really made a lasting impression on me was their loss-prevention training me was that not everybody is strong enough to carry an item, a bag, or push a cart while shopping. Wh…

Is simply sticking something in your pocket enough reason for them to kick off? In the UK at least I've been shoving stuff in hoodie pockets if I can't carry it all in my hands. You might occasionally get funny looks but no one has said anything to me, or the other people I know that do it.

Absolutely, in America we tend to assume everybody is out to rob / harm everybody else and are always on guard.

Especially if you're young, just having your hands in your pockets will get a store clerk following you around. My parents even taught me as a child to never put your hands in your pockets when in a store.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#95

Post by miemo »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #18
andrewchambers wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should stop talking for others when they are unelected or not nominated. Just because she feels that way, doesn't mean every black person does. Maybe many do, but I don't think it is productive to speak for other people's experience. Of course when speaking for oneself, then it is fine to say anything.

That seems like a great way to ignore basically any complaint, by dismissing it as a lone outlier. All other things being equal, it should be pretty clear that a given black person is more qualified to speak about the black experience than a given white person is to refute them. If you have reason to believe that this particular writer is unreliable or not representative, then by all means share them.

all black people have the same experiences?

heyooo

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#96

Post by Udik »

SeanBoocock wrote: post #9
pcurve wrote: post #2

I feel horrible for what she went through as a child, and still goes through. But. For this article, if felt she was over-analyzing and extrapolating a bit much. This one felt borderline unnecessary and hyperbolic: "No one cared what I was doing. Is this what it feels like to shop when you're not black? "

I don't understand this sentiment. The author describes her lived experience shopping as a black woman throughout her life. She also points to recent publicized examples of black people being subject to poor treatment while engaging in normal activities. If you had lived your entire life being weary of store clerks, having inculcated that lesson in childhood, why wouldn't her observation be both genuine and important…

> She also points to recent publicized examples of black people being subject to poor treatment while engaging in normal activities.

The one about Oprah in Zurich is absolute bullshit. When you take in account that the boutique in question is one of Zurich's most luxurious (not for nothing they have $38k purses on sale) you can imagine the type of treatment any customer gets from the salespeople, who are used to see incredibly rich customers from any part of the world pop in for their shopping. If anything, the episode highlights exactly the hyper-sensitivity of some people (given that Oprah didn't just lie to publicise her then upcoming movie on the theme of racism, "The Butler").

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#97

Post by esotericn »

salvar wrote: post #38
esotericn wrote: post #8

Profiling sucks. In this case though, I'd say you're simply trading one injustice for another. You go from the ephemeral experience of having a few underpaid lackeys mistrust you, to having an eternal database of everything you buy owned by a third party. Then again, it's getting pretty ridiculous everywhere. The local supermarkets around me - they've gradually stripped real checkout operators away and replaced them…

Why do you assume that the experience is ephemeral? It sounds like you're trying to downplay the experience of black people being profiled in stores. I think that for people that have to deal with this kind of discrimination day in day out for most of their lives, regardless of how much you believe they're exaggerating, trading that for Amazon's database of their purchases is a sweet deal.

Please don't do this.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#98

Post by salvar »

esotericn wrote: post #97
salvar wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume that the experience is ephemeral? It sounds like you're trying to downplay the experience of black people being profiled in stores. I think that for people that have to deal with this kind of discrimination day in day out for most of their lives, regardless of how much you believe they're exaggerating, trading that for Amazon's database of their purchases is a sweet deal.

Please don't do this.

I'm legitimately confused. What should I not do?

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#99

Post by fjsolwmv »

meowface wrote: post #54
cbg0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as this is andrew_'s personal experience, I don't see why I'd call him a racist regardless of the race he profiled the most. He even goes on to explain that there's a good reason for targeting white teenagers: they were the most likely to steal something, so they weren't targeted because they're white, they were targeted because they proved to be the highest risk. Now if andrew_ had started generalizing, like…

>As long as this is andrew_'s personal experience, I don't see why I'd call him a racist regardless of the race he profiled the most. He even goes on to explain that there's a good reason for targeting white teenagers: they were the most likely to steal something, so they weren't targeted because they're white, they were targeted because they proved to be the highest risk. Let's say that Arab men between the age of 2…

You are merely repeatin a baseless assumption. Unless you have a good sample, you have no idea who steals more. And an admittedly biased sample is a bad sample.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#100

Post by andrewchambers »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #12
andrewchambers wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should stop talking for others when they are unelected or not nominated. Just because she feels that way, doesn't mean every black person does. Maybe many do, but I don't think it is productive to speak for other people's experience. Of course when speaking for oneself, then it is fine to say anything.

I'm a white person and I'm pretty sure people don't treat me worse for my skin colour when shopping. Is that a controversial statement?

No - I didn't say it was.
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