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In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

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Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#61
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People should stop talking for others Other people should do that you say?

Yep, that's what they said. You can read it right there in the comment. Are you trying to imply something? I hope you're not trying to imply hypocrisy, because saying what someone should do is not speaking for them.

Yeah that's fair. It was a weak argument.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#62
I’m a white Scandinavian male, well dressed and always looking like I belong in any higher class setting, but I would love this concept as well.

I have anxiety and even though it’s not really hindering me in any way, I still double check my damn bag before I enter a store and I always make sure to get a receipt to be able to prove I paid, even though I’ve never even been looked over by store security.

Normal people wouldn’t notice, but grocery stores are designed to think some of their visitors are thieves, and if Amazon Go took that away from the experience I’d honestly never shop anywhere else.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#63
This reminds me somewhat of a non-profit retail store in San Francisco where I volunteered to pay off a pile of parking tickets. The store itself sold local artisanal housewares to help support a number of local AIDS/HIV-related charities.

What really made a lasting impression on me was their loss-prevention training me was that not everybody is strong enough to carry an item, a bag, or push a cart while shopping. When seeing somebody place an item in their pocket/purse/bag we would offer to carry it for them or hold it at the front-desk.

This enabled a compassionate the benefit of the doubt to a clientele base who were often too frail from HIV-related illnesses to hold the item in their hands and offered a gracious, de-escalated escape route for would-be thieves.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#64
post #16

This is an interesting topic; The automation removed a lot of the human interaction, creating a better experience for the customer. In the short term. However, by removing a lot of humans from the shopping interactions, it allows the removed humans to never learn from their mistakes, to stay isolated in their own views. Will this actually make racism better or worse in the long run, as there isn't automation to "fix"…

Except it is probably the other way round: shop employees in some shops learn to be extra watchful of black customers, because they have experienced black customers stealing. So with Amazon Go, they'll not become racist in the first place.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#66
post #25
post #22

Tossing in my own anecdotal experience: I worked in Loss Prevention (plain clothes security) for a major midwest retail chain, within 10 miles of a major metropolitan city for several years. We absolutely profiled customers. The catch is that we profiled teenagers of the Caucasian persuasion. Why? Because they were the folks most likely to try and lift goods. Folks wearing unnecessarily baggy clothing (think more tha…

Of course, if you'd swapped out the word "Caucasian" for "African American" your post would be downvoted and you'd be called a racist. But because we're DEFINITELY not racist mentioning you targeted white people is totally fine in 2018.

If you care to actually read the post he’s not saying he was targeting white people because of race. He is saying they target people due to suspicious behavior and then gives you a lay down of the race of those targeted.

It’s not an account of someone being racist against Caucasian a and everyone being fine with that.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#67
post #22

Tossing in my own anecdotal experience: I worked in Loss Prevention (plain clothes security) for a major midwest retail chain, within 10 miles of a major metropolitan city for several years. We absolutely profiled customers. The catch is that we profiled teenagers of the Caucasian persuasion. Why? Because they were the folks most likely to try and lift goods. Folks wearing unnecessarily baggy clothing (think more tha…

I think there won't be any progress in the racism discussion, until there is an acknowledgement that profiling to some degree is normal and acceptable. People should still be treated with dignity and presumed innocent until proven guilty. But you can not ask people who have had bad experiences to pretend they didn't happen.

As an extreme example that "the left" might be able to emphatize with: imagine a woman who has been raped. Should we blame her, if she acts more careful around men in the future?

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#68
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racial profiling is being criticized despite being effective. There is an argument to be made that you shouldn't be treated differently based on the color of your skin. In fact it is e.g. in the German constitution. http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/racial-profiling-g...

> Racial profiling is being criticized despite being effective. You got anything to back up this blanket statement?

How and why do you have to back it up?

It’s just a type of argument that is actually quite common with its basic idea being that just because something is effective, doesn’t mean it’s right or just to do.

Transferred to racial profiling the argument is this: Even if racial profiling is effective, employing it is still ethically indefensible and plain wrong.

Put another way: Even if we agree on a goal (e.g. catching more criminals) that doesn’t mean that any effective way to achieve or improve that is then suddenly appropriate.

The German constitutional court does make this argument explicitly (even though I’m not sure any police officers actually respect that – but at least those affected can now somewhat defend themselves).

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#70
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as this is andrew_'s personal experience, I don't see why I'd call him a racist regardless of the race he profiled the most. He even goes on to explain that there's a good reason for targeting white teenagers: they were the most likely to steal something, so they weren't targeted because they're white, they were targeted because they proved to be the highest risk. Now if andrew_ had started generalizing, like…

>As long as this is andrew_'s personal experience, I don't see why I'd call him a racist regardless of the race he profiled the most. He even goes on to explain that there's a good reason for targeting white teenagers: they were the most likely to steal something, so they weren't targeted because they're white, they were targeted because they proved to be the highest risk. Let's say that Arab men between the age of 2…

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