Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The military’s obsession with energy drinks is contributing to PTSD

militarytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 79 posts

Re: The military’s obsession with energy drinks is contributing to PTSD

#61

Post by yholio »

tlb wrote: post #58
danielrhodes wrote: post #28

Would this even be a story if people were drinking coffee instead? The active ingredient in Red Bull is caffeine. Yet a cup of coffee has more caffeine than a Red Bull. Their marketing has been very effective in convincing people that energy drinks are more than just a caffeinated drink with a bunch of other chemicals that don’t really work. Because of that, people vilify these various drinks, and now we get an artic…

It also contains taurine, unlike coffee, which "crosses the blood–brain barrier and has been implicated in a wide array of physiological phenomena including inhibitory neurotransmission, long-term potentiation in the striatum/hippocampus, membrane stabilization, feedback inhibition of neutrophil/macrophage respiratory burst, adipose tissue regulation and possible prevention of obesity, calcium homeostasis, recovery f…

Taurine sounds like the perfect cool sounding ingredient that can be safely added with absolutely no effects:

"The amounts of guarana, taurine, and ginseng found in popular energy drinks are far below the amounts expected to deliver either therapeutic benefits or adverse events".

Re: The military’s obsession with energy drinks is contributing to PTSD

#62

Post by gnulinux »

danielrhodes wrote: post #28

Would this even be a story if people were drinking coffee instead? The active ingredient in Red Bull is caffeine. Yet a cup of coffee has more caffeine than a Red Bull. Their marketing has been very effective in convincing people that energy drinks are more than just a caffeinated drink with a bunch of other chemicals that don’t really work. Because of that, people vilify these various drinks, and now we get an artic…

Caffeine and incredible amounts of sugar.

Re: The military’s obsession with energy drinks is contributing to PTSD

#63

Post by shams93 »

jcrawfordor wrote: post #42
danielrhodes wrote: post #28

Would this even be a story if people were drinking coffee instead? The active ingredient in Red Bull is caffeine. Yet a cup of coffee has more caffeine than a Red Bull. Their marketing has been very effective in convincing people that energy drinks are more than just a caffeinated drink with a bunch of other chemicals that don’t really work. Because of that, people vilify these various drinks, and now we get an artic…

Red Bull is honestly not that popular in this crowd though, the major energy drinks you see are Monster, Rockstar, and as mentioned, Rip It (really an offbrand of the former two from the maker of Shasta/La Croix). These typically have 160mg of caffeine, which is high for coffee although not by a large margin. The culture around them seems to encourage much greater consumption though, with oversize cans (e.g. 24oz wit…

The sleep deprivation combined with PTSD is a bigger factor I would say energy drinks are a symptom of a much bigger problem.

Re: The military’s obsession with energy drinks is contributing to PTSD

#64

Post by killjoywashere »

R_haterade wrote: post #57
jcrawfordor wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Red Bull is honestly not that popular in this crowd though, the major energy drinks you see are Monster, Rockstar, and as mentioned, Rip It (really an offbrand of the former two from the maker of Shasta/La Croix). These typically have 160mg of caffeine, which is high for coffee although not by a large margin. The culture around them seems to encourage much greater consumption though, with oversize cans (e.g. 24oz wit…

Gotta have my /sipps/ tho. I'm actually curious now if the 30 year old boomer meme is in any way an outgrowth of the Iraq war. The aesthetic the meme embraces reminds me a lot of the guys I knew my age and older who served. Gonna have to reflect on this a bit.

Know Your Meme places the origin of 30-year-old boomer in April 2018. Rage comics became a thing in 2008, 2 years after the peak death toll in Iraq. I don't recall any link between the development of rage comics and Iraq though.

Re: The military’s obsession with energy drinks is contributing to PTSD

#65

Post by andai »

IC4RUS wrote: post #38
drngdds wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the effect of caffeine on sleep, it's a very small leap to make

It actually a fairly large leap, considering that caffeine can impair sleep quality, causing more fatigue or fatigued people could be consuming caffeine to reduce the fatigue. In many people, both may be happening, so teasing out the direction of causation is difficult.

The two go really well together. I recently quit coffee and started sleeping 10 hours a night. It's hard to get to sleep on time when I've had coffee, but if I get enough sleep, I don't need to have coffee to feel awake.

Re: The military’s obsession with energy drinks is contributing to PTSD

#66

Post by emersonrsantos »

flipp3r wrote: post #13
emersonrsantos wrote: post #9

The current facts about coffee and sugar are the following: drinking coffee is good for your mental and physical, while sugar is linked to depression, addiction, anxiety, heart problems, obesity and not surprisingly, PTSD: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4522929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4086302/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5056806/

You're leaving out many things about coffee. Specifically, caffeine, which energy drinks are often loaded with. Caffeine on its own can cause anxiety (See "Caffeine-induced anxiety disorder") and is linked to depression. Let alone workers consuming caffeine during work time with headaches(or other withdrawal symptoms) on their days off who still haven't figured it out the stuff is just plain not good for you.

There's a third way, very popular among hackers, yerba mate. Used by South American people.

It has good caffeine content, but apparently has a slower absorption. Helps you to keep focused, without the strong highs and lows you have with pure coffee.

Re: The military’s obsession with energy drinks is contributing to PTSD

#67

Post by tlb »

yholio wrote: post #61
tlb wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also contains taurine, unlike coffee, which "crosses the blood–brain barrier and has been implicated in a wide array of physiological phenomena including inhibitory neurotransmission, long-term potentiation in the striatum/hippocampus, membrane stabilization, feedback inhibition of neutrophil/macrophage respiratory burst, adipose tissue regulation and possible prevention of obesity, calcium homeostasis, recovery f…

Taurine sounds like the perfect cool sounding ingredient that can be safely added with absolutely no effects: "The amounts of guarana, taurine, and ginseng found in popular energy drinks are far below the amounts expected to deliver either therapeutic benefits or adverse events".

"Absolutely no effects" shouldn't be your default assumption. Lots of compounds have been shown to have subtle long-term effects that weren't obvious at first.

You have to do epidemiological studies to find problems with compounds that have a negative effect only in certain circumstances, because it probably won't be noticed in clinical trials. The foundational example is thalidomide, which is a harmless sedative except in pregnant women. Clinical trials aren't normally done on pregnant women, and they also aren't done on soldiers in active combat.

There may well be no problem, but this is the sort of epidemiological evidence that justifies further study.

Re: The military’s obsession with energy drinks is contributing to PTSD

#68

Post by craftyguy »

emersonrsantos wrote: post #66
flipp3r wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're leaving out many things about coffee. Specifically, caffeine, which energy drinks are often loaded with. Caffeine on its own can cause anxiety (See "Caffeine-induced anxiety disorder") and is linked to depression. Let alone workers consuming caffeine during work time with headaches(or other withdrawal symptoms) on their days off who still haven't figured it out the stuff is just plain not good for you.

There's a third way, very popular among hackers, yerba mate. Used by South American people. It has good caffeine content, but apparently has a slower absorption. Helps you to keep focused, without the strong highs and lows you have with pure coffee.

Yerba mate is my favorite. I wish it was more popular in the US.

Re: The military’s obsession with energy drinks is contributing to PTSD

#69

Post by tptacek »

danielrhodes wrote: post #28

Would this even be a story if people were drinking coffee instead? The active ingredient in Red Bull is caffeine. Yet a cup of coffee has more caffeine than a Red Bull. Their marketing has been very effective in convincing people that energy drinks are more than just a caffeinated drink with a bunch of other chemicals that don’t really work. Because of that, people vilify these various drinks, and now we get an artic…

According to the story, it's sleep and relaxation deficit that's causing PTSD, not some chemical in the drink. If you deliberately supplement caffeine to maintain an otherwise unsustainable op tempo, the connection is not all that complicated or unreasonable.

Re: The military’s obsession with energy drinks is contributing to PTSD

#70

Post by sonnyblarney »

danielrhodes wrote: post #28

Would this even be a story if people were drinking coffee instead? The active ingredient in Red Bull is caffeine. Yet a cup of coffee has more caffeine than a Red Bull. Their marketing has been very effective in convincing people that energy drinks are more than just a caffeinated drink with a bunch of other chemicals that don’t really work. Because of that, people vilify these various drinks, and now we get an artic…

"The active ingredient in Red Bull is caffeine."

No - it's Taurene (caffeine as well of course)

Taurene is a whole different game.

Taurene will mess you up long term far more than just caffeine. Taurene has less worse short term effects ... and there doesn't seem to be consensus on long term, but I personally had a serious bout with it messing up my endrocrine.

1 small red bull now and again is enough.

Soldiers need to get more sleep, for god's sakes there's guns and lives on the line. Yes, sleep dep training is important, but with live munitions ... my god man.

Post reply on HN