Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#191

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 1:07 AM UTC

kadendogthing wrote: post #187

Kalium wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The obstacle being ego. Ah. Well. At least I now understand what you mean. Though I've found deflating the egos of every person in a discussion to be a difficult task. Telling a person getting a hostile reception to get their ego out of the way tends to come across a lot like telling someone to take the licks they deserve, complete with generally being discarded out of hand. Telling a person who feels righteous ang…

> And maybe help you understand the people you appear to viscerally despise as human beings I'm sorry, who do I despise exactly? I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[deleted]

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#192

Post by killjoywashere » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 1:09 AM UTC

woodpanel wrote: post #38

simonh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though presumably not financial gains? Gentrification usually implies skyrocketing property valuations, so early movers should stand to win big from the trend. I used to know someone that bought a flat in Soho, central London, in the mid-90s. She sold it when she married 8 years later and made over half a million quid. No idea what it would be worth now.

It's gentrificators that become anti-gentrification activists once they secured their gain. The "gain" in this case is: 1) Getting to transform a neighbourhood (that you weren't a part of before) however it fancies you, while simultaneously prohibiting those that come after you from doing the same. 2) locking in the low rents you have to pay. While keeping supply of housing artificially low you're thus increasing the…

> It is not uncommon that one neighbour tenant in the same house pays two times your rent

In the US, it is not uncommon that one neighbor homeowner next door pays two times your mortgage.

I would be interested in your story about home-ownership, but difference in pricing due to time of arrival doesn't seem like a differentiator between renting and buying.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#193

Post by Sargos » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 1:16 AM UTC

antt wrote: post #168

cyphunk wrote: post #163

The problem with "guess they don't want jobs" argument is that Google is not like Ford Motor Company. When they move into your town and your rents double you can't just be retrained. When a company that requires special skills moves in they kick people that do not have those skills out.

>When they move into your town and your rents double you can't just be retrained. Why?

It's not a politically correct thing to say but most people aren't smart enough to work in tech. It's a fairly top tier field unless you're doing something really, really basic.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#194

Post by Barrin92 » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 1:22 AM UTC

marcell wrote: post #188

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources. Another way of looking at that, is "gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists". It's not new (1) I don't necessarily agree with that framing, but it is understandable and coherent, not a misunderstanding 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18282143

Since when is a bunch of nerds “techbros”? I really hate this term. If I like programming and computers and databases, am I a techbro? Is this supposed to be a bad thing?

Nobody dislikes a good-natured nerd. As someone from Germany maybe to give some local perspective, what people here really don't like is the sort of tech entrepreneur who builds themselves a castle in the middle of the city, considers the local population to be "riff-raff" and doesn't respect the communal nature of a city.

That's the sort of thing that invokes the image of a "tech bro" and this is what people don't want in Berlin. People don't want the local scene replaced with overpriced chain stores and electric scooters and multinationals dictating city development policy.

The CCC has its roots in Germany and we've always had a hacker and nerd friendly culture.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#195

Post by sonnyblarney » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 1:44 AM UTC

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #22

jschuur wrote: post #9

If I read the article correctly, this wasn't about building a new 'Google campus' (i.e. a huge building to house a large number of Google employees as their main regional HQ). This was about building Campus Berlin, an incubator for startups like they pioneered first in London and then brought to other cities. See https://www.campus.co/berlin/de and https://www.campus.co/london/en . It's easy to misunderstand this bec…

> help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources. Another way of looking at that, is "gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists". It's not new (1) I don't necessarily agree with that framing, but it is understandable and coherent, not a misunderstanding 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18282143

"gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists"

Or bring very high paying jobs that Germany desperately needs, and allow great students to actually do something with their education, which would in turn enable a poor neighbourhood to thrive with ancilliary businesses, restaurants, taxis etc. etc..

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#196

Post by sonnyblarney » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 1:45 AM UTC

eigenvector wrote: post #185

pteredactyl wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mutual exclusivity is naive at best. To me, it shows haters' level of intellect. And perhaps explains why they feel left out. They're attached to an ideal of what 'art' (additionally, activism[1]) should be. An outdated, 20th century one. I personally don't like Google. And I understand your framing is hypothetical. But why is tech framed the opposite of art? Why is tech equal to techbro? Yea there are always bad…

The mutual exclusivity is valid. Being able to do stuff that requires a lot of time and doesn't make a lot of money (i.e. art) requires a low cost of living. Adding a bunch of people making $200k+ into a neighbourhood does the opposite of that, very rapidly and very predictably.

Berlin is big, and Germany is much bigger, and there are tons of places for artists. Even in Berlin.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#197

Post by sonnyblarney » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 1:46 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #194

marcell wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when is a bunch of nerds “techbros”? I really hate this term. If I like programming and computers and databases, am I a techbro? Is this supposed to be a bad thing?

Nobody dislikes a good-natured nerd. As someone from Germany maybe to give some local perspective, what people here really don't like is the sort of tech entrepreneur who builds themselves a castle in the middle of the city, considers the local population to be "riff-raff" and doesn't respect the communal nature of a city. That's the sort of thing that invokes the image of a "tech bro" and this is what people don't w…

"what people here really don't like is the sort of tech entrepreneur who builds themselves a castle in the middle of the city, considers the local population to be "riff-raff" and doesn't respect the communal nature of a city."

What on earth are you talking about?

Who are these magical people who build castles?

And Berlin is not hugely more 'communal' than anywhere else.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#198

Post by sonnyblarney » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 1:47 AM UTC

megaman8 wrote: post #144

jschuur wrote: post #9

If I read the article correctly, this wasn't about building a new 'Google campus' (i.e. a huge building to house a large number of Google employees as their main regional HQ). This was about building Campus Berlin, an incubator for startups like they pioneered first in London and then brought to other cities. See https://www.campus.co/berlin/de and https://www.campus.co/london/en . It's easy to misunderstand this bec…

at the end of the day, what matters is the supply of jobs vs the supply of places to live. And if there's already too many jobs to residential areas, then I think it's quite responsible of them to say no to more jobs. It's better to put those jobs in areas that have enough housing. the bay area was not so smart and look where it got us.

"already too many jobs" this is really never the case.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#199

Post by StudentStuff » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 2:17 AM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #197

Barrin92 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody dislikes a good-natured nerd. As someone from Germany maybe to give some local perspective, what people here really don't like is the sort of tech entrepreneur who builds themselves a castle in the middle of the city, considers the local population to be "riff-raff" and doesn't respect the communal nature of a city. That's the sort of thing that invokes the image of a "tech bro" and this is what people don't w…

"what people here really don't like is the sort of tech entrepreneur who builds themselves a castle in the middle of the city, considers the local population to be "riff-raff" and doesn't respect the communal nature of a city." What on earth are you talking about? Who are these magical people who build castles? And Berlin is not hugely more 'communal' than anywhere else.

Amazon, Google, Facebook. Look at the castles they've built in Seattle, you aren't getting in unless you are an employee or are escorted by an employee. None of those companies need this level of security, and most other businesses you can literally wander into during office hours, but that is generally not the case with these three.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#200

Post by wbl » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 2:32 AM UTC

mrzool wrote: post #177

pteredactyl wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mutual exclusivity is naive at best. To me, it shows haters' level of intellect. And perhaps explains why they feel left out. They're attached to an ideal of what 'art' (additionally, activism[1]) should be. An outdated, 20th century one. I personally don't like Google. And I understand your framing is hypothetical. But why is tech framed the opposite of art? Why is tech equal to techbro? Yea there are always bad…

> The mutual exclusivity is naive at best. Your comment shows utter ignorance about what's happening — or already happened — in virtually every major city in every developed country.

How are Tokyo housing prices? Vienna's cost of living is kept down by large amounts of social housing, etc. Gentrification is a side effect of not building housing.