Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 235 posts

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#161

Post by DanielleMolloy »

seanhunter wrote: post #95
jschuur wrote: post #9

If I read the article correctly, this wasn't about building a new 'Google campus' (i.e. a huge building to house a large number of Google employees as their main regional HQ). This was about building Campus Berlin, an incubator for startups like they pioneered first in London and then brought to other cities. See https://www.campus.co/berlin/de and https://www.campus.co/london/en . It's easy to misunderstand this bec…

The tech ecosystem in Berlin is pretty diverse. It doesn't need an SV firm to come in to do that or to give access to facilities and other resources.

By 'diverse' you mean dozens of embarrassing Rocket Internet copycats...?

This sort of arrogance is so typical for Germany.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#162

Post by DanielleMolloy »

jschuur wrote: post #9

If I read the article correctly, this wasn't about building a new 'Google campus' (i.e. a huge building to house a large number of Google employees as their main regional HQ). This was about building Campus Berlin, an incubator for startups like they pioneered first in London and then brought to other cities. See https://www.campus.co/berlin/de and https://www.campus.co/london/en . It's easy to misunderstand this bec…

> There may still be very valid reasons to protest Google in Berlin, but I wonder if the people objecting understood the distinction: that this wasn't a hub for all of Google's employees, but rather a place that would help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources.

From what I know about the protest - reading public statements, how the protests began, how they now publicly celebrate their 'victory', and from having seen their early campaign websites - they almost certainly had no idea what a Google Campus is about. At some point certain parts of the campaign learned, but many never left the black & white painting behind for a more nuanced assessment.

What they are publicly exhibiting as "creative street art" may be very telling about their capability for nuance: https://fuckoffgoogle.de/2018/04/17/street-art-against-googl...

There is lots of criticism in Germany right now about these protests having chased away a startup campus.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#163

Post by cyphunk »

The problem with "guess they don't want jobs" argument is that Google is not like Ford Motor Company. When they move into your town and your rents double you can't just be retrained. When a company that requires special skills moves in they kick people that do not have those skills out.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#164

Post by kadendogthing »

Kalium wrote: post #158
kadendogthing wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said the statement reeks of bitterness and ignorance. It wasn't a wholesale description of you as a person. It's not black and white. >Except for complaining about how wronged they've been by the system. You're still operating off of stereotypes instead of actually talking about the people that live in these communities and the work they do. >I'm more interested in how all the enlightened 'creatives' can engage wit…

You're right! The tech community absolutely needs to put forth the effort to engage with people who are unlike them. People who live different lives, have different bodies, and make different choices. I hate to be the one to say it, but in some cases I can see why some people might be reluctant to engage. I know that for my own part, I am generally disinclined to engage in genuine, kind, compassionate, and empathetic…

> in some cases I can see why some people might be reluctant to engage.

Within the tech community, it's really just ego and myopic view points and experiences.

>convince people of this basic truth when they find unfriendly receptions.

As a matter of practicality, it's easier to deflate the obstacle.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#165

Post by manfredo »

camillomiller wrote: post #39
woodpanel wrote: post #2

Rightly so. Berlin has an amazing start up scene, certainly unique for and unrivaled in Germany. That being said, Berlin hosts a lot of NIMBYism. Particularly by people who gentrified the city in the first place and immediately turned to become fierce gentrification enemies. Essentially locking in their gains.

This makes no sense. Berlin is a rent city, not a ownership one. So what’s the incredible gain to lock?

Berlin has extensive rent control. So it likely the same situation as San Francisco: a significant portion of renters enjoy a privileged rent price and aren't affected by rising housing costs. While people in non-rent controlled cities like Seattle accept development, people in rent controlled cities oppose development because they don't want their neighborhood to change and they are insulated from rising rents.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#166

Post by manfredo »

hocuspocus wrote: post #25
simonh wrote: post #3

I'd be interested to hear the opinions of any Berlin residents. Vocal NIMBY minority driving away new jobs and beneficial development? Genuine victory in preserving local culture and character? Bit of both? Other?

I wouldn't call it NIMBYism. - Most residents in Berlin (and in Germany for that matter) rent their apartments. - There's a fairly good supply of newly built homes. It's still not enough to absorb the population growth, but it's much better than in many German cities. People complain because they can see the downside of this influx of tech workers very clearly, while the benefits aren't obvious, at least not yet. Ren…

NIMBYISM and renting are not mutually exclusive. Especially in cities with rent control. The situation here seems a lot like the situation in San Francisco. A large renting population with rent control opposing development.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#167

Post by Kalium »

kadendogthing wrote: post #164
Kalium wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right! The tech community absolutely needs to put forth the effort to engage with people who are unlike them. People who live different lives, have different bodies, and make different choices. I hate to be the one to say it, but in some cases I can see why some people might be reluctant to engage. I know that for my own part, I am generally disinclined to engage in genuine, kind, compassionate, and empathetic…

> in some cases I can see why some people might be reluctant to engage. Within the tech community, it's really just ego and myopic view points and experiences. >convince people of this basic truth when they find unfriendly receptions. As a matter of practicality, it's easier to deflate the obstacle.

> Within the tech community, it's really just ego and myopic view points and experiences.

I definitely understand that. Tech people are too self-centerd and shortsighted to look or care about others! If they tried, they'd surely find it a highly rewarding experience. It's patently obvious that none of these asshole techbros has ever actually tried at all, right?

After all, if they had stepped outside their narrow worldviews and bubbles of greed and privilege then it would be obvious. They would think differently. Act differently. Believe differently. Value other things than they currently do. It's not possible that someone could be exposed to the glory of art, creativity, and expression without being moved to value it!

They'd stop acting as locusts, devouring all they come across because it looks tasty and destroying everything in their paths. They'd start acting in considered, conscious, intentional ways. They'd value community.

> As a matter of practicality, it's easier to deflate the obstacle.

I confess, I'm really not sure what you mean by "deflate the obstacle". Or what this means beyond a metaphor I think I don't understand. Could you please help me here? I would very much like to be able to engage substantively with whatever it is you are trying to say.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#168

Post by antt »

cyphunk wrote: post #163

The problem with "guess they don't want jobs" argument is that Google is not like Ford Motor Company. When they move into your town and your rents double you can't just be retrained. When a company that requires special skills moves in they kick people that do not have those skills out.

>When they move into your town and your rents double you can't just be retrained.

Why?

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#169

Post by woodpanel »

chobeat wrote: post #88
woodpanel wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that this activism is often made up of people who are highly educated, affluent (because of parents or soon-to-be paying off high-education) who weren't born in Berlin themselves – in other words: By gentrificators.

Irony that might be true on the internet but not in the real world.

Meet your self-proclaimed „activist“ in charge, Berlin-Kreuzberg’s housing councilor [1].

Born in Cologne (not Berlin), finished School in Frankfurt (not Berlin), studied humanities for nine years (in Hamburg, Barcelona and then Berlin). And before holding political office never once worked in a private sector job where he payed into social security.

Pretty much ironic what goes as anti-gentrificationista these days.

[1] https://www.berlin.de/ba-friedrichshain-kreuzberg/politik-un...

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#170

Post by tomjen3 »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #22
jschuur wrote: post #9

If I read the article correctly, this wasn't about building a new 'Google campus' (i.e. a huge building to house a large number of Google employees as their main regional HQ). This was about building Campus Berlin, an incubator for startups like they pioneered first in London and then brought to other cities. See https://www.campus.co/berlin/de and https://www.campus.co/london/en . It's easy to misunderstand this bec…

> help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources. Another way of looking at that, is "gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists". It's not new (1) I don't necessarily agree with that framing, but it is understandable and coherent, not a misunderstanding 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18282143

If you can replace techbros with $MINORITY and the artists with white people, you can see why I have no sympathy for that argument, or the people who put it forth.
Post reply on HN