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China’s Government Has Ordered a Million Citizens to Occupy Uighur Homes

chinafile.com

11–20 of 26 posts

Re: China’s Government Has Ordered a Million Citizens to Occupy Uighur Homes

#11

Let's not sugar coat this, the CCP is engaging in systematic ethnic cleansing. They are trying Cultural Revolution style reeducation and surveillance first, but who knows how many will die in the camps. This level of repression makes Northern Ireland look like a tea party. If it weren't that Xinjiang is so poor I'd think it inevitable that there would be armed resistance -- without a crop like opium the Taliban would…

There is armed resistance, the Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkistan_Islamic_Party

They're deemed a terrorist group by US and EU and have fought in Syria.

Re: China’s Government Has Ordered a Million Citizens to Occupy Uighur Homes

#12
post #5

It makes a lot of sense. If Islam causes terrorism, forcing people to not be Islamic is one way to deal with it. Of course, it's not really tenable in societies with freedom of religion, and goes against the fundamental axiom of a free society, that people who don't hurt anybody should be able to quietly live their lives without government harassment. No mainstream Western politician will make the case, though. There…

I don’t think it’s Islam in general, but rather China is cracking down on Salafism.

Since there are over 20 million Muslims in China and most of them aren’t hassled by the government.

Re: China’s Government Has Ordered a Million Citizens to Occupy Uighur Homes

#13
post #4

Also concentration camps. But no one has pulled out of China. Companies still seem to be falling over themselves to help. Personally my feeling is that any engineer working on software or hardware to support this kind of effort should be considered a party to it, and so be subject to international law. Especially in the US and Europe where there is no “I was afraid for my life” justification.

And they won't, they know who the new power is. There is nothing you can do about it either so you Western wimps need to mind your business and humble yourselves.

Re: China’s Government Has Ordered a Million Citizens to Occupy Uighur Homes

#14
post #5

It makes a lot of sense. If Islam causes terrorism, forcing people to not be Islamic is one way to deal with it. Of course, it's not really tenable in societies with freedom of religion, and goes against the fundamental axiom of a free society, that people who don't hurt anybody should be able to quietly live their lives without government harassment. No mainstream Western politician will make the case, though. There…

Keep in mind that it wasn't simply "Muslims" that attacked us on 9/11, but rather a specific group of Muslims, from the other side of the world, who cited specific grievences against the US (related to our foreighn policy regarding Isreal and Saudi Arabia).

If it was simply the case that Islam causes terrorism, we would expect terrosists to have a much more diverse set of origins, to match the geographical diversity of Muslims.

Re: China’s Government Has Ordered a Million Citizens to Occupy Uighur Homes

#15

Let's not sugar coat this, the CCP is engaging in systematic ethnic cleansing. They are trying Cultural Revolution style reeducation and surveillance first, but who knows how many will die in the camps. This level of repression makes Northern Ireland look like a tea party. If it weren't that Xinjiang is so poor I'd think it inevitable that there would be armed resistance -- without a crop like opium the Taliban would…

> Let's not sugar coat this, the CCP is engaging in systematic ethnic cleansing.

They haven't been doing it and they're not going to do that. Why?

1. Ethnic cleansing (akin to what we see in Yugoslavia & WWII) just isn't a tool Chinese have used historically.

2. Unlike say the Nazis, the CCP does not see the problem mainly as race & genetics. The issue in their eyes is culture and behavior.

3. They have something else that's been proven to work in places like Mongolia. There's no official name for it but a faculty member from GaTech's International Affairs school has called it "reverse genocide".

What is "reverse genocide"? It's not as harsh as the name sounds. It's basically just a really aggressive form of assimilation. Here's a high level view of what happens:

1. Encourage Han Chinese to relocate to the areas that need to be changed with incentives. They will soon become the majority. The region's culture will become Han Chinese in a decade or less.

2. Encourage Han Chinese to intermarry with the native people. This is actually easy to do. Han males tend to be financially more well off then than native counterparts, and there is a huge gender disparity so no one cares as much when their sons marry someone who isn't Han. Their children and their families become Han and are treated as such. Any trace of the old native culture is just wiped out in 1-2 generations within these families.

Wash, rinse and repeat. 1 & 2 are ideal because there's nothing really horrible to criticize because it's subtle and it's highly effective.

For places like Xinjiang, where both 1 & 2 are not as effective initially, they implement the re-education tactics that we've read in articles such as the one posted. I'm going to guess that maybe 1 & 2 gets easier to do as well over time.

Re: China’s Government Has Ordered a Million Citizens to Occupy Uighur Homes

#16
post #4

Also concentration camps. But no one has pulled out of China. Companies still seem to be falling over themselves to help. Personally my feeling is that any engineer working on software or hardware to support this kind of effort should be considered a party to it, and so be subject to international law. Especially in the US and Europe where there is no “I was afraid for my life” justification.

I don't see why engineers should be particularly responsible. I don't see how any work could be done without everything from entrepreneurial or financial, legal, to janitorial help.

Re: China’s Government Has Ordered a Million Citizens to Occupy Uighur Homes

#17
post #4

Also concentration camps. But no one has pulled out of China. Companies still seem to be falling over themselves to help. Personally my feeling is that any engineer working on software or hardware to support this kind of effort should be considered a party to it, and so be subject to international law. Especially in the US and Europe where there is no “I was afraid for my life” justification.

I don't see why engineers should be particularly responsible. I don't see how any work could be done without everything from entrepreneurial or financial, legal, to janitorial help.

If you know you’re writing software that is directly used to violate basic human rights why wouldn’t you be?

Does doing it because you’re told to remove your complicity? (Hint: Nuremberg trials found plenty of guards at concentration camps guilty).

To you question on janitors, you’re right - there is clearly a point where there should be a cut off - does a person empty trash cans have they same culpability (or any) as the engineer who is writing software designed to support mass incarceration on the basis of race or religion?

I would argue no - much like I would argue that if an engineer making software to identify terrorists would not be. But once that engineer discovers “terrorist” now just means “Muslim” or what have you, then continued work would mean culpability.

Re: China’s Government Has Ordered a Million Citizens to Occupy Uighur Homes

#19

Let's not sugar coat this, the CCP is engaging in systematic ethnic cleansing. They are trying Cultural Revolution style reeducation and surveillance first, but who knows how many will die in the camps. This level of repression makes Northern Ireland look like a tea party. If it weren't that Xinjiang is so poor I'd think it inevitable that there would be armed resistance -- without a crop like opium the Taliban would…

I thought these current policies are a reaction to the armed terrorist attacks that happened in the past few years? Like the one at the train station that hurt hundreds of people?

No, this has been going on for decades. Mostly as a soft policy, allowing people to migrate without strict control (which is not allowed elsewhere in China), and though providing Han Chinese with government jobs. Lots second class citizen stuff, banning Uighur cultural practices etc. The knife attacks are an expression of the pressure the population is under.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/1789160/chin...

Re: China’s Government Has Ordered a Million Citizens to Occupy Uighur Homes

#20

Let's not sugar coat this, the CCP is engaging in systematic ethnic cleansing. They are trying Cultural Revolution style reeducation and surveillance first, but who knows how many will die in the camps. This level of repression makes Northern Ireland look like a tea party. If it weren't that Xinjiang is so poor I'd think it inevitable that there would be armed resistance -- without a crop like opium the Taliban would…

> Let's not sugar coat this, the CCP is engaging in systematic ethnic cleansing. They haven't been doing it and they're not going to do that. Why? 1. Ethnic cleansing (akin to what we see in Yugoslavia & WWII) just isn't a tool Chinese have used historically. 2. Unlike say the Nazis, the CCP does not see the problem mainly as race & genetics. The issue in their eyes is culture and behavior. 3. They have something els…

As I said, a Chinese style cultural genocide. Stealing the women, locking up the men, taking their jobs and scarce resources, banning religion -- what could go wrong?

But it now has aspects more familiar from the Cultural Revolution, like re-education camps, sending the cadres out to enforce correct thought (this time readings of Xi instead of Mao!). Though there seems to be little zeal in the cadres, and the Han population of Zinjiang sticks to their heavily patrolled enclaves in the north.

It is curious when you consider that both Hu and Xi were victims of the Cultural Revolution: https://www.thoughtco.com/hu-jintao-195670 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-17/why-maos-cultural-rev...

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