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Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

bbc.com

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Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#141

Post by [deleted] »

woodpanel wrote: post #38
simonh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though presumably not financial gains? Gentrification usually implies skyrocketing property valuations, so early movers should stand to win big from the trend. I used to know someone that bought a flat in Soho, central London, in the mid-90s. She sold it when she married 8 years later and made over half a million quid. No idea what it would be worth now.

It's gentrificators that become anti-gentrification activists once they secured their gain. The "gain" in this case is: 1) Getting to transform a neighbourhood (that you weren't a part of before) however it fancies you, while simultaneously prohibiting those that come after you from doing the same. 2) locking in the low rents you have to pay. While keeping supply of housing artificially low you're thus increasing the…

[deleted]

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#142

Post by eiaoa »

eyeinthepyramid wrote: post #126
eropple wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You use the services that have functionally become required for daily life regardless of whether you like them or not, so it is in some way hand-flappingly hypocritical not to let them step on your community too" is not really the winning argument here.

What Google services are required for daily life? Don't they all have competitors?

> What Google services are required for daily life? Don't they all have competitors?

Not really. It's sort of like RMS with open-source hardware: yes there are a handful of modern computers that can be made to work without binary blobs, but it's a lot of trouble and only a few people will actually do that out of principle. It's practically requred to run proprietary binary blobs. Similarly, Bing, Duckduckgo, and OpenStreetMap exist, but Google services are practically required for modern daily life.

For an illustration: a typical local shop is going put the effort into making sure its information is correct on Google Maps and that their website is indexed on Google; but it's going to put zero effort into updating its info on OpenStreetMap or making sure it's indexed by Bing. If you want info about that shop, you're probably going to have to use Google.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#143

Post by doombolt »

pjc50 wrote: post #23
doombolt wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is not it obvious? When you tell you do software in Perugia you sound important, when you tell the same in London you basically say you're a nobody. I would gladly move to Italy with its amazing culture. I would not move to a place so diverse and full of recent immigrants that it no longer has any specific culture. Am I unique here? And yes, people relocate to Poland a lot, from ex-USSR countries for example.

You don't want to immigrate to London because there are too many immigrants?

Yep! It's so crowded, nobody goes there anymore.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#144

Post by megaman8 »

jschuur wrote: post #9

If I read the article correctly, this wasn't about building a new 'Google campus' (i.e. a huge building to house a large number of Google employees as their main regional HQ). This was about building Campus Berlin, an incubator for startups like they pioneered first in London and then brought to other cities. See https://www.campus.co/berlin/de and https://www.campus.co/london/en . It's easy to misunderstand this bec…

at the end of the day, what matters is the supply of jobs vs the supply of places to live. And if there's already too many jobs to residential areas, then I think it's quite responsible of them to say no to more jobs. It's better to put those jobs in areas that have enough housing. the bay area was not so smart and look where it got us.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#145

Post by kadendogthing »

avip wrote: post #127
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your comment is extremely patronizing and arrogant ("To me, it shows haters' level of intellect.") and a "let them eat cake" attitude that to me shows a clear lack of understanding of why people have become so anti-tech over the past 2 decades.

I think we should stop using these empty terms in discussion. They contribute nothing, it’s just ad hominem.

They're not empty terms. They're appropriate qualifiers. And they're not even close to being ad hominem. Don't invoke logical fallacies if you don't understand their usage.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#146

Post by kadendogthing »

pteredactyl wrote: post #123
kadendogthing wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so you know, your entire comments reacts of bitterness and ignorance. You think their view point on art is stuck in the 20th century, but that's only because you clearly don't understand the type of community you're dealing with. In fact your view point seems extremely myopic and appears to be constrained around your own motivations and hobbies. >But why is tech framed the opposite of art? You are fundamentally…

I'm bitter and ignorant? I've lived in these communities of 'creatives'. For years. I know its a lot of drugs, idealism and not a lot of action. Except for complaining about how wronged they've been by the system. Is that your 'another world is possible'? So maybe I am bitter... Don't get me wrong, the system is fucked up in many ways. And I agree with your distinction of a grey blandness that permeates the tech cult…

I said the statement reeks of bitterness and ignorance. It wasn't a wholesale description of you as a person. It's not black and white.

>Except for complaining about how wronged they've been by the system.

You're still operating off of stereotypes instead of actually talking about the people that live in these communities and the work they do.

>I'm more interested in how all the enlightened 'creatives' can engage with this boring grey techbro community.

I think the techbro community needs to be the one doing the engaging.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#147

Post by mehrdadn »

eiaoa wrote: post #142
eyeinthepyramid wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Google services are required for daily life? Don't they all have competitors?

> What Google services are required for daily life? Don't they all have competitors? Not really. It's sort of like RMS with open-source hardware: yes there are a handful of modern computers that can be made to work without binary blobs, but it's a lot of trouble and only a few people will actually do that out of principle. It's practically requred to run proprietary binary blobs. Similarly, Bing, Duckduckgo, and Open…

> For an illustration: a typical local shop is going put the effort into making sure its information is correct on Google Maps and that their website is indexed on Google; but it's going to put zero effort into updating its info on OpenStreetMap or making sure it's indexed by Bing. If you want info about that shop, you're probably going to have to use Google.

That's a great example, thanks for mentioning it. I'll probably use it from now on.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#148

Post by globe1337 »

pteredactyl wrote: post #89
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources. Another way of looking at that, is "gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists". It's not new (1) I don't necessarily agree with that framing, but it is understandable and coherent, not a misunderstanding 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18282143

The mutual exclusivity is naive at best. To me, it shows haters' level of intellect. And perhaps explains why they feel left out. They're attached to an ideal of what 'art' (additionally, activism[1]) should be. An outdated, 20th century one. I personally don't like Google. And I understand your framing is hypothetical. But why is tech framed the opposite of art? Why is tech equal to techbro? Yea there are always bad…

you sound like that rick and morty copypasta. embarrassing.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#149

Post by lallysingh »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #122
lallysingh wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google probably thought "Hey, what's the coolest part of Berlin, where we'd make engineers happy to be in?" and that's about it. "Subtleties"[1] about why it's cool, or what its response to Google being there, probably weren't considered. After the selection had occurred, the procurement machine had been tasked and at that point it takes a lot of resistance to stop that machinery. [1] For some real estate group in Go…

> ...what's the coolest part of Berlin, where we'd make engineers happy to be in? but i also wonder: does Google consider itself to be one of the "cool kids?" i mean, when it tries to create a new campus like this, does Google think it will be welcomed with open arms?

It still does. I think that shine has been wearing a little thin the last year, but generally it does.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#150

Post by cyphunk »

Xylakant wrote: post #107
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources. Another way of looking at that, is "gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists". It's not new (1) I don't necessarily agree with that framing, but it is understandable and coherent, not a misunderstanding 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18282143

The building was originally renovated by ID Media, one of the largest digital media/web development companies in Berlin at the end of the nineties. It’s been filled with IT companies ever since they went bankrupt and currently has an incubator as one of the renters. It’s never been full of artists for the last 20 years. So while I’m not surprised (and very much not sad) that the plans didn’t work out for a host of re…

The mere mention of google already turned up into most housing and office space sale adverts. The effect on housing costs is real but the amount debatable. Rents in the neighborhood have gone through the roof the past couple years and protestors are looking for symbolic wins to make the city more urgently address the problem.
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