Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation • Hacker News Board

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#91

Post by seer » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:09 PM UTC

madeuptempacct wrote: post #15

anoncoward111 wrote: post #3

Serious question, and I'm not a Tesla hater either: Why does anyone spend $35,000 - $50,000 on a car? It just feels like a number that is at least 5x too high. A used car from a fairly reputable source can be had for between $3,000 - $6,000, depending on mileage and cosmetic appearance. My 2005 Ford Focus sedan was $3,000 and should last me about 3 years before I need to make a decision about major repairs, so that's…

"Why does anyone spend $35,000 - $50,000 on a car? It just feels like a number that is at least 5x too high." If someone makes $250,000+ a year, it's not unreasonable. "My 2005 Ford Focus sedan was $3,000 and should last me about 3 years before I need to make a decision about major repairs, so that's less than $100 a month in ammortized costs." That's completely unrealistic. You have some sort of competitive advantag…

I'm not sure how much it varies country to country - I'm in Eastern Europe myself (lower labor costs, higher import / taxes etc) but my trusty toyota corolla was bought for about $3000 with no "friend discounts", just a general recommendation that Japanese cars are reliable and a bit of quick looking around the local car craigslist equivalents. I've been driving it for about 7 years (12 years old in total) with no major repairs whatsoever, only routine maintenance and a couple of bodywork fixes that we can contribute to "user error".

And its not that I'm an outlier or anything, most of my friends have stories in the same ballpark. To be honest I even paid a bit too much due to my inexperience, if you're smart and know the right people you could get a better car at close to half the price.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#92

Post by parasubvert » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:10 PM UTC

anoncoward111 wrote: post #3

Serious question, and I'm not a Tesla hater either: Why does anyone spend $35,000 - $50,000 on a car? It just feels like a number that is at least 5x too high. A used car from a fairly reputable source can be had for between $3,000 - $6,000, depending on mileage and cosmetic appearance. My 2005 Ford Focus sedan was $3,000 and should last me about 3 years before I need to make a decision about major repairs, so that's…

It’s relative to whatever else you want to spend your money on. I spent $90k on my recent car because I love cars, and this was a relative deal (it was worth $110k) with decent resale value.

I have friends that have spent $140k on their Tesla model X, or $190k on their Porsche 911 Turbo. That seems too high for me. Shrug. Everyone is different in their priorities. Most of these are leases where they’re paying maybe $5k a month. When you make $300-400k a year or more with current low rates it’s not terrible.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#93

Post by PopeDotNinja » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:10 PM UTC

esotericn wrote: post #52

madeuptempacct wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why does anyone spend $35,000 - $50,000 on a car? It just feels like a number that is at least 5x too high." If someone makes $250,000+ a year, it's not unreasonable. "My 2005 Ford Focus sedan was $3,000 and should last me about 3 years before I need to make a decision about major repairs, so that's less than $100 a month in ammortized costs." That's completely unrealistic. You have some sort of competitive advantag…

Maybe I'm just an outlier. My cars generally cost about 300-500 quid. If it breaks I buy another one. I can buy 5 or more of them for your quoted 3K. Are they as safe as a Model S? No. Are they substantially more dangerous than other things I do in my life? Probably not. Once things start to break you scrap it and get another one. Done. I bought a Civic for 325 GBP, changed the tyres for ~150, and drove it around hal…

I didn't truly understand what a rust bucket was until I tried buying a used car in Northern Virginia (I had just moved from California). Everything below $2000 USD was a rust covered death trap that couldn't pass a vehicle inspection. I test drove a $1500 car and cut myself on the rust as I got into the vehicle. Another $1900 car was kind of low rust, but it couldn't pass the vehicle safety check.

Snow & road salt is not nice to cars.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#94

Post by ianai » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

esotericn wrote: post #52

madeuptempacct wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why does anyone spend $35,000 - $50,000 on a car? It just feels like a number that is at least 5x too high." If someone makes $250,000+ a year, it's not unreasonable. "My 2005 Ford Focus sedan was $3,000 and should last me about 3 years before I need to make a decision about major repairs, so that's less than $100 a month in ammortized costs." That's completely unrealistic. You have some sort of competitive advantag…

Maybe I'm just an outlier. My cars generally cost about 300-500 quid. If it breaks I buy another one. I can buy 5 or more of them for your quoted 3K. Are they as safe as a Model S? No. Are they substantially more dangerous than other things I do in my life? Probably not. Once things start to break you scrap it and get another one. Done. I bought a Civic for 325 GBP, changed the tyres for ~150, and drove it around hal…

Having two cars isn’t quite realistic in the US for that context. Someone buying cars like that likely lives in an apartment in a city with limited parking. I’m sure it happens, but it’s not scaleable. Granted, that applies to many things in US life.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#95

Post by Damogran6 » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

anoncoward111 wrote: post #3

Serious question, and I'm not a Tesla hater either: Why does anyone spend $35,000 - $50,000 on a car? It just feels like a number that is at least 5x too high. A used car from a fairly reputable source can be had for between $3,000 - $6,000, depending on mileage and cosmetic appearance. My 2005 Ford Focus sedan was $3,000 and should last me about 3 years before I need to make a decision about major repairs, so that's…

Because they can, and because they want to. If a $50,000 car is 200X your income, that's one thing...if it/s 1/20 your income, it makes the [emotional] decision much easier to rationalize.

Further, that $50k is being more and more hidden in things like low-mileage leases, so it doesn't FEEL like that...it only feels like $400 a month and you get a new car in 3 years...but nothing to show for it after the fact.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#96

Post by doubt_me » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:12 PM UTC

newguynewguy wrote: post #67

ams6110 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. You can buy a good, reliable, well maintained car for $3,000. Mileage is less important than maintenance history. The Focus is a particularly good choice IMO. They are reliable, pleasant to drive, and Ford made gazillions of them so you can get them repaired anywhere and parts are cheap. You can also buy a basket case for $3,000, so you do need to have a bit of an idea of what to look for (or what to avoi…

I'm going to be replacing a taurus soon. $3k is my budget. I took highschool auto, but would absolutely not feel comfortable buying a used focus. Where are the resources to learn what I 'need to look out for'?

/r/cars |

/r/justrolledintotheshop

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#97

Post by ljf » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:13 PM UTC

antisthenes wrote: post #76

esotericn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm just an outlier. My cars generally cost about 300-500 quid. If it breaks I buy another one. I can buy 5 or more of them for your quoted 3K. Are they as safe as a Model S? No. Are they substantially more dangerous than other things I do in my life? Probably not. Once things start to break you scrap it and get another one. Done. I bought a Civic for 325 GBP, changed the tyres for ~150, and drove it around hal…

Aren't insurance costs way higher than the amortized cost of the car itself? Especially in the UK? > In the US you have the issue that a car might be a hard requirement to get to work. In that case I'd probably just buy two and drive them on alternate days so there's always a backup. As long as you're not paying almost double insurance, this sounds like a good option. You could even rent the other car out on the C2C…

Depends where you are - with 11 years no claims, I paid around £500 a year in London on a Volvo v70 2.4 litre, currently paying £230 a year (out of London) for a huge people carrier that also has my wife as a named driver who has only just learnt to drive.

Though yes - insuring 2 cars could be costly - some places offer a multi car discount, some with a device that only charges you when you drive.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#98

Post by personlurking » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:13 PM UTC

esotericn wrote: post #52

madeuptempacct wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why does anyone spend $35,000 - $50,000 on a car? It just feels like a number that is at least 5x too high." If someone makes $250,000+ a year, it's not unreasonable. "My 2005 Ford Focus sedan was $3,000 and should last me about 3 years before I need to make a decision about major repairs, so that's less than $100 a month in ammortized costs." That's completely unrealistic. You have some sort of competitive advantag…

Maybe I'm just an outlier. My cars generally cost about 300-500 quid. If it breaks I buy another one. I can buy 5 or more of them for your quoted 3K. Are they as safe as a Model S? No. Are they substantially more dangerous than other things I do in my life? Probably not. Once things start to break you scrap it and get another one. Done. I bought a Civic for 325 GBP, changed the tyres for ~150, and drove it around hal…

Yep, cheap cars are possible and they can work. My last car while still in the US was an old Kia, which I bought off Craigslist for $500. It was a beater but lasted me several years, during which time I might have spent another $500 to fix one thing or another.

Otherwise I had several cars when I was younger, all used, and all of them costing below $6000, without having to spend a fortune on maintenance.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#99

Post by steelframe » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:13 PM UTC

BitterSweets wrote: post #16

anoncoward111 wrote: post #3

Serious question, and I'm not a Tesla hater either: Why does anyone spend $35,000 - $50,000 on a car? It just feels like a number that is at least 5x too high. A used car from a fairly reputable source can be had for between $3,000 - $6,000, depending on mileage and cosmetic appearance. My 2005 Ford Focus sedan was $3,000 and should last me about 3 years before I need to make a decision about major repairs, so that's…

Why buy a MacBook Pro for $2k+ when you can get by with a ChromeBook for $150?

I have both a MacBook Pro and a Chromebook (Samsung Pro). The Chromebook has quickly become my go-to computer, and I never feel like I'm just "getting by" on it.

I also replaced a LEAF with a Tesla. Ever since doing that, my girlfriend has been asking to go back to the LEAF, because it got the job done just fine and wasn't complicated.

Re: Why almost everyone was wrong about Tesla’s cash flow situation

#100

Post by Cthulhu_ » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

anoncoward111 wrote: post #3

Serious question, and I'm not a Tesla hater either: Why does anyone spend $35,000 - $50,000 on a car? It just feels like a number that is at least 5x too high. A used car from a fairly reputable source can be had for between $3,000 - $6,000, depending on mileage and cosmetic appearance. My 2005 Ford Focus sedan was $3,000 and should last me about 3 years before I need to make a decision about major repairs, so that's…

I wouldn't spend that kind of money unless I had fuck you money in the bank, knowing full well they depreciate half their value after the first year (although as an aside: I don't know if that's the case with Tesla cars, less moving complicated parts so less wear and tear. Apple computers and phones depreciate notably less quickly than their competitors, too).

However, I work for a company that offers a lease budget, meaning I am actually able to drive a $35K car at a small bump in taxes (that is, a percentage of the value of the car is added to my annual income and taxed as income tax accordingly. I get free fuel from work though otoh so it's a good deal).

Especially in Europe and / or my segment of work, lease cars are a huge market - tens of thousands of cars - and Tesla will make a HUGE impact on that once they become available over here. Europe and my country are much more suitable for electric cars too, in that distances are generally much lower.